6 ms·

What about the poor? LA for most parts, against popular belief, is a pretty homogenous city when it comes to wealth, sure you have Beverly Hills and Malibu but

by soheil 10y ago

What about the poor? LA for most parts, against popular belief, is a pretty homogenous city when it comes to wealth, sure you have Beverly Hills and Malibu but LA is so vast that majority of it doesn't feel secluded. Now if you toll the non-wealthy (the rich will not notice the toll) you remove that dynamic, that headline should really say let's remove more poor people from the freeways.

prodikl 10y ago
he touched on that > the most common complaint being: "Oh, so only rich people can drive?" > This critique ignores the fact that working Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. Working-class parents who are late to pick up their kids from day care, for example, often pay severe financial penalties. Having the option to reach their destination quickly could actually save them money. In fact, experience with dynamic tolling in the United States has shown that people of all income levels use these lanes. This objection also ignores just how inequitable and dysfunctional our current system is. Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor, but so do sales taxes, gas taxes and every other way we pay for roads.
- soheil 10y ago
  > Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor, but so do sales taxes, gas taxes and every other way we pay for roads. So let's add yet another burden? > Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. Wow, somehow my crazy brain interprets this as if you're poor you're probably not as American as the rest of us. > Working-class parents who are late to pick up their kids from day care, for example, often pay severe financial penalties. So let's charge them up front so that they can't even afford to drop off their kids at day care?
  - grotsnot 10y ago
    > working Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. You missed an important qualifier, there.
fsargent 10y ago
With any Pigouvian tax[1] you encounter the problem of progressivity. The answer is to make sure that the tax revenues are directed towards making it easier for low income people to have better transit options. Whether that means improved transit systems or income based toll exceptions, it's relatively easy to offset the detrimental impacts that tolling may put in place. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax
- soheil 10y ago
  I just think A) we have to be honest that is only a tax on the poor B) then have the rich pay in a different way, maybe it should be a limit on duration of travel or miles by humans, ie. no matter what car you drive or who drives you you're not allowed to travel more than x number of miles/day. (this is beginning to sound really odd)

by soheil 10y ago

prodikl 10y ago

he touched on that > the most common complaint being: "Oh, so only rich people can drive?" > This critique ignores the fact that working Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. Working-class parents who are late to pick up their kids from day care, for example, often pay severe financial penalties. Having the option to reach their destination quickly could actually save them money. In fact, experience with dynamic tolling in the United States has shown that people of all income levels use these lanes. This objection also ignores just how inequitable and dysfunctional our current system is. Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor, but so do sales taxes, gas taxes and every other way we pay for roads.

soheil 10y ago
> Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor, but so do sales taxes, gas taxes and every other way we pay for roads. So let's add yet another burden? > Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. Wow, somehow my crazy brain interprets this as if you're poor you're probably not as American as the rest of us. > Working-class parents who are late to pick up their kids from day care, for example, often pay severe financial penalties. So let's charge them up front so that they can't even afford to drop off their kids at day care?
- grotsnot 10y ago
  > working Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. You missed an important qualifier, there.

fsargent 10y ago

With any Pigouvian tax[1] you encounter the problem of progressivity. The answer is to make sure that the tax revenues are directed towards making it easier for low income people to have better transit options. Whether that means improved transit systems or income based toll exceptions, it's relatively easy to offset the detrimental impacts that tolling may put in place. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax

soheil 10y ago
I just think A) we have to be honest that is only a tax on the poor B) then have the rich pay in a different way, maybe it should be a limit on duration of travel or miles by humans, ie. no matter what car you drive or who drives you you're not allowed to travel more than x number of miles/day. (this is beginning to sound really odd)