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What percent of Google Voice users will abandon Firefox now that v52 breaks a key component of their workflow? https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2017/02/goo

What percent of Google Voice users will abandon Firefox now that v52 breaks a key component of their workflow? https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2017/02/google-hangouts-temporary-issues-with-firefox.html https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2017/02/google-hangouts... Ironically, Mozilla has stated that breaking all these user plugins is part of some strategy to regain market share and "influence web standards". Now that it's actually happening, I'm hoping more people will see how it's not going to work.

wnevets 10y ago
I didn't even realize google voice had hangouts integration in the browser.
TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
Why is Google relying on an NPAPI plugin for Hangouts, rather than using WebRTC?
- mavhc 10y ago
  This is the old version of hangouts, so I guess a) because WebRTC didn't exist/was too new at the time, and b) hats
  - cpeterso 10y ago
    Hangouts switched from NPAPI to WebRTC in Chrome back in 2014, but still uses plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) for other browsers. Hangouts depends on some non-standard WebRTC functionality in Chrome. Google has had almost three years to adapt to other browsers' WebRTC stacks, but it is not a priority because the plugins have still worked (in Firefox < 52 and IE). https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3PcLye https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3Pc...
Etzos 10y ago
Except Mozilla had planned and announced this would happen at least a year in advance. On top of that Google also removed the same thing from Chrome a while ago citing the same reasons, it's just that they shoehorned in a fix for Chrome and IE when they did so.
threepipeproblm 10y ago
(a) None of the replies changes the fact that Firefox will lose users over this. A harbinger of what's to come. Too bad Mozilla's wack leadership can't solve their problems by downvoting the users who leave Firefox because they will no longer the browser that works with a rich extension ecosystem (in general). (b) If the one of the largest software companies out there, which is apparently acting in good faith here (since they intend to release a new plugin), can't keep up, then in what universe do all the rest? All that being said, who knows what it going on with the new Google Voice. While seemingly improving the UI, they made it very difficult to place outgoing calls to people one has not received calls from already. So maybe Google is getting ready to kill Voice off.
- Etzos 10y ago
  a. It seems you're conflating the deprecation of XUL/legacy extensions and the NPAPI plugins here. This current release removes NPAPI support which affects plugins only. Extension changes are coming in later releases. b. If they're acting in good faith why did they misrepresent when Mozilla announced they would be deprecating the NPAPI plugin API[1]? It seems more likely that they were simply lazy and instead of making the solution they used for Chrome (which already removed NPAPI support, mind you) work across the board, they waited until the last moment and realized Mozilla was actually going to go through with making the same changes they did. [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plu... which is a full year before Google mentioned Mozilla made the announcement ( https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2016/plug-in-support-has-been-dropped-other-than-flash/ https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2016/plug-in-support... )
  - cpeterso 10y ago
    Hangouts switched from NPAPI to WebRTC in Chrome back in 2014, but continues to use plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) in other browsers. Hangouts depends on some non-standard WebRTC functionality in Chrome. https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3PcLye https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3Pc...
  - 10y ago
pcwalton 10y ago
> Ironically, Mozilla has stated that breaking all these user plugins is part of some strategy to regain market share and "influence web standards". Now that it's actually happening, I'm hoping more people will see how it's not going to work. I never thought I would see a defense of NPAPI, of all things, on HN. NPAPI is a gaping security problem, and the only fix is to remove it entirely. What is your proposal for making NPAPI secure?
hackuser 10y ago
Many people think this is a Google problem, not a Mozilla one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13763759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13763759

wnevets 10y ago

I didn't even realize google voice had hangouts integration in the browser.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago

Why is Google relying on an NPAPI plugin for Hangouts, rather than using WebRTC?

mavhc 10y ago
This is the old version of hangouts, so I guess a) because WebRTC didn't exist/was too new at the time, and b) hats
- cpeterso 10y ago
  Hangouts switched from NPAPI to WebRTC in Chrome back in 2014, but still uses plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) for other browsers. Hangouts depends on some non-standard WebRTC functionality in Chrome. Google has had almost three years to adapt to other browsers' WebRTC stacks, but it is not a priority because the plugins have still worked (in Firefox < 52 and IE). https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3PcLye https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3Pc...

Etzos 10y ago

Except Mozilla had planned and announced this would happen at least a year in advance. On top of that Google also removed the same thing from Chrome a while ago citing the same reasons, it's just that they shoehorned in a fix for Chrome and IE when they did so.

threepipeproblm 10y ago

(a) None of the replies changes the fact that Firefox will lose users over this. A harbinger of what's to come. Too bad Mozilla's wack leadership can't solve their problems by downvoting the users who leave Firefox because they will no longer the browser that works with a rich extension ecosystem (in general). (b) If the one of the largest software companies out there, which is apparently acting in good faith here (since they intend to release a new plugin), can't keep up, then in what universe do all the rest? All that being said, who knows what it going on with the new Google Voice. While seemingly improving the UI, they made it very difficult to place outgoing calls to people one has not received calls from already. So maybe Google is getting ready to kill Voice off.

Etzos 10y ago
a. It seems you're conflating the deprecation of XUL/legacy extensions and the NPAPI plugins here. This current release removes NPAPI support which affects plugins only. Extension changes are coming in later releases. b. If they're acting in good faith why did they misrepresent when Mozilla announced they would be deprecating the NPAPI plugin API[1]? It seems more likely that they were simply lazy and instead of making the solution they used for Chrome (which already removed NPAPI support, mind you) work across the board, they waited until the last moment and realized Mozilla was actually going to go through with making the same changes they did. [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plu... which is a full year before Google mentioned Mozilla made the announcement ( https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2016/plug-in-support-has-been-dropped-other-than-flash/ https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2016/plug-in-support... )
- cpeterso 10y ago
  Hangouts switched from NPAPI to WebRTC in Chrome back in 2014, but continues to use plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) in other browsers. Hangouts depends on some non-standard WebRTC functionality in Chrome. https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3PcLye https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3Pc...
- 10y ago

pcwalton 10y ago

> Ironically, Mozilla has stated that breaking all these user plugins is part of some strategy to regain market share and "influence web standards". Now that it's actually happening, I'm hoping more people will see how it's not going to work. I never thought I would see a defense of NPAPI, of all things, on HN. NPAPI is a gaping security problem, and the only fix is to remove it entirely. What is your proposal for making NPAPI secure?

hackuser 10y ago

Many people think this is a Google problem, not a Mozilla one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13763759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13763759