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The guy went from "cryptoanarchy" to having a TV show on RT(a propaganda network)and saying Russia has "vibrant" criticism of Putin's regime (beyond absurd). No

The guy went from "cryptoanarchy" to having a TV show on RT(a propaganda network)and saying Russia has "vibrant" criticism of Putin's regime (beyond absurd). Not to mention him somehow being able to facilitate Snowden's entry into Russia. I'm no fan of imperialist American foreign policy, but Russia is just as grotesque. http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2016/12/23/news/assange_wikileaks-154754000/ http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2016/12/23/news/assange_wiki...

lolc 10y ago
First time I hear that Assange "the guy" was "somehow" instrumental in Snowden's flight.
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  Here it is from the horse's mouth, strangely enough also featured on the Russian propaganda network: https://www.rt.com/news/313829-assange-advise-snowden-russia/ https://www.rt.com/news/313829-assange-advise-snowden-russia...
baursak 10y ago
This doesn't prove your original claim in any way.
Bartweiss 10y ago
> saying Russia has "vibrant" criticism of Putin's regime No, he didn't. I know The Guardian said he did, but they mislead readers so badly that the interviewer they were quoting specifically called them out for bad journalism. Wikileaks has gone off the rails lately, but the "vibrant" thing is from a hitpiece that's inaccurate in almost every way. Assange said "In Russia, there are many vibrant publications, online blogs, and Kremlin critics such as [Alexey] Navalny are part of that spectrum." This wasn't part of a statement about Russia not needing dissent like Wikileaks, but about whether Wikileaks was competent to provide it. He continued "in Russia there are competitors to WikiLeaks, and no WikiLeaks staff speak Russian, so for a strong culture which has its own language, you have to be seen as a local player" and made similar comparisons to China and East Timor. The question was about Wikileaks efficacy compared to Russian activists, not whether Putin suppresses critics. Note that Assange cited Navalny, a man Putin has put in prison. That shows pretty clear awareness of what criticism means in Russia, but The Guardian pulled the quote without the followup or example. Worse, The Guardian also cited Assange as offering "praise for Trump" in the interview. That's flatly dishonest - no such statement appears, they just claimed it did. When asked, he described Trump as "gathering around him a spectrum of other rich people and several idiosyncratic personalities". https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of-julian-assanges-interview-went-viral-and-was-completely-false/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of...
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  I literally linked to the actual interview. I know exactly what he said and my original statement still stands. And there's so much "vibrant" criticism in Russia that the guy he mentions is in prison? If that doesn't refute his argument (assuming it wasn't ironic), I don't know what does. Here's someone who also went to prison for protesting against Putin who says that Assange uses rhetorical dodges, but it's out in the open in Russia that he works with the Kremlin. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/27/pussy-riot-s-nadya-tolokno-julian-assange-is-connected-with-the-russian-government.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/27/pussy-riot-...
  - travmatt 10y ago
    The very famously anti-Putin pussy riot has stated that Wikileaks has become a Russian propaganda front. I wonder why Wikileaks didn't cite them as part of their 'vibrant ciriticism'?
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    I continue to think quoting the word "vibrant" without the end of the sentence is badly misleading. I mean, he's talking about whether Russia has Wikileaks-equivalents, and you answer that it's different from the US because the biggest leakers and critics are in prison or exile? The analogy to Manning and Snowden makes itself... Yes, Assange is soft on Russia and Trump (and apparently Roger stone just copped again to a Trump-Assange connection). No, it wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if he's looking to the Kremlin for leaks and protection, and so publishing at their discretion. Yes, Russia clearly engages in censorship and violence against critics on a level not at all comparable to the US. (The Manning/Snowden comparison on "in prison" is obvious, but I do realize the difference. The US doesn't have an epidemic of murdered journalists and civil rights advocates in exile, and wealth and fame aren't required to survive dissent.) But because I worry about all of that, I wish the discussion of the topic wasn't so often allergic to context. Most articles and public statements on the issue are easily shredded for horrible inaccuracies, when even a straightforward summary of events is deeply alarming.
- travmatt 10y ago

lolc 10y ago

First time I hear that Assange "the guy" was "somehow" instrumental in Snowden's flight.

alphonsegaston 10y ago
Here it is from the horse's mouth, strangely enough also featured on the Russian propaganda network: https://www.rt.com/news/313829-assange-advise-snowden-russia/ https://www.rt.com/news/313829-assange-advise-snowden-russia...

baursak 10y ago

This doesn't prove your original claim in any way.

Bartweiss 10y ago

> saying Russia has "vibrant" criticism of Putin's regime No, he didn't. I know The Guardian said he did, but they mislead readers so badly that the interviewer they were quoting specifically called them out for bad journalism. Wikileaks has gone off the rails lately, but the "vibrant" thing is from a hitpiece that's inaccurate in almost every way. Assange said "In Russia, there are many vibrant publications, online blogs, and Kremlin critics such as [Alexey] Navalny are part of that spectrum." This wasn't part of a statement about Russia not needing dissent like Wikileaks, but about whether Wikileaks was competent to provide it. He continued "in Russia there are competitors to WikiLeaks, and no WikiLeaks staff speak Russian, so for a strong culture which has its own language, you have to be seen as a local player" and made similar comparisons to China and East Timor. The question was about Wikileaks efficacy compared to Russian activists, not whether Putin suppresses critics. Note that Assange cited Navalny, a man Putin has put in prison. That shows pretty clear awareness of what criticism means in Russia, but The Guardian pulled the quote without the followup or example. Worse, The Guardian also cited Assange as offering "praise for Trump" in the interview. That's flatly dishonest - no such statement appears, they just claimed it did. When asked, he described Trump as "gathering around him a spectrum of other rich people and several idiosyncratic personalities". https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of-julian-assanges-interview-went-viral-and-was-completely-false/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of...

alphonsegaston 10y ago
I literally linked to the actual interview. I know exactly what he said and my original statement still stands. And there's so much "vibrant" criticism in Russia that the guy he mentions is in prison? If that doesn't refute his argument (assuming it wasn't ironic), I don't know what does. Here's someone who also went to prison for protesting against Putin who says that Assange uses rhetorical dodges, but it's out in the open in Russia that he works with the Kremlin. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/27/pussy-riot-s-nadya-tolokno-julian-assange-is-connected-with-the-russian-government.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/27/pussy-riot-...
- travmatt 10y ago
  The very famously anti-Putin pussy riot has stated that Wikileaks has become a Russian propaganda front. I wonder why Wikileaks didn't cite them as part of their 'vibrant ciriticism'?
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I continue to think quoting the word "vibrant" without the end of the sentence is badly misleading. I mean, he's talking about whether Russia has Wikileaks-equivalents, and you answer that it's different from the US because the biggest leakers and critics are in prison or exile? The analogy to Manning and Snowden makes itself... Yes, Assange is soft on Russia and Trump (and apparently Roger stone just copped again to a Trump-Assange connection). No, it wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if he's looking to the Kremlin for leaks and protection, and so publishing at their discretion. Yes, Russia clearly engages in censorship and violence against critics on a level not at all comparable to the US. (The Manning/Snowden comparison on "in prison" is obvious, but I do realize the difference. The US doesn't have an epidemic of murdered journalists and civil rights advocates in exile, and wealth and fame aren't required to survive dissent.) But because I worry about all of that, I wish the discussion of the topic wasn't so often allergic to context. Most articles and public statements on the issue are easily shredded for horrible inaccuracies, when even a straightforward summary of events is deeply alarming.
travmatt 10y ago