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Michael Hastings? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)

by struct 10y ago

1001101 10y ago
I had the same thought. Rest in peace.
knowaveragejoe 10y ago
While the above is certainly plausible(killing someone with a car), I highly doubt this is the case here: https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-michael-hastings-crash-cars-just-dont-blow-up-kim-dvorak.t2148/#post-62380 https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-michael-hastings-crash-car...
- digler999 10y ago
  While I don't think the CIA is above killing a US citizen on US soil (you know, for "security" or something), I don't think they need to hack a vehicle to do it, nor would they want to draw the unnecessary speculation and attention. I would expect antics like that to be reserved for high-ranking foreign officials or other hard-to-reach people. If there's one thing that agency should be expected to excel in, it's untraceable targeted killings.
  - rattray 10y ago
    Given the relatively low amount of public scrutiny/outrage/attention/fear that this death caused, wouldn't you say that the car technique would be effective? (whether or not it was used in this case)
    - digler999 10y ago
      It's effective at taking a life. However I disagree that the fallout was "relatively low", compared to even a badly staged suicide, or "gang violence", "road rage", or a "botched robbery". IIRC a democratic organization employee was recently slain in DC from a "botched robbery" or something and nobody blinked an eye except in the more fringe communities. To me, that's how you snuff someone out, or OD them on insulin and have an official coroner report say "natural causes". I think a fiery single car crash at top speed is a pretty high profile event, almost up there with polonium poisoning.
      - u_wot_m8 10y ago
        seth rich, killed execution style, nothing stolen, reported a robbery. Assange implied he was the source of the DNC leaks
        aluhut 10y ago
        Just like a guy named Jack Burkman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Burkman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Burkman who offered $105,000 against the $25,000 from the Metropolitan Police Department, for information about his death. With all parties having reasons so see Rich dead, I'd say it may become semi-relevant part in the cinematic workup of the Trump era.
        tomjakubowski 10y ago
        What's the evidence he was killed "execution style"? Note: being shot in the back is not evidence of being killed "execution style".
        pdeuchler 10y ago
        That is literally the definition of "execution style", when you are killed at close range with no means of escape
  - fnordfnordfnord 10y ago
    > I don't think they need to hack a vehicle to do it, The CIA has multiple ways to cause a death. No doubt about that. They don't "need" to use any particular method, but if they want to kill someone, that have to choose at least one method. >nor would they want to draw the unnecessary speculation and attention. What unnecessary speculation and attention? Is LAPD going to bust out their JTAG debuggers, and compare the collection of firmwares in Hastings' car to a clean sample? Practically nobody believes that the CIA/US gov't killed Hastings by hacking his car. Given the propensity for most Americans to never even consider a thing once its been labeled as a conspiracy theory, I'd say that gives about as good a cover as the CIA (or whomever) would ever need. We already have people hypothesizing this as the manner of Hastings' death; but do we see any apparent effort to dispute/disprove it? No, simply chuckle and call it a conspiracy theory. It will go away on its own without regard to whether it was in fact a conspiracy. >I would expect antics like that to be reserved for high-ranking foreign officials or other hard-to-reach people. The spies have to perfect their craft somehow. Where is it written that a method of assassination must vary by the apparent importance of the proposed victim?
    - digler999 10y ago
      why would they resort to elaborate techniques to do so when they could have someone walk up and pick him off with a gun or poison or just have him "disappeared"? You're saying instead they chose a method that requires a sophisticated firmwmare hack that may not even work (just gunning the engine is no guarantee it will kill the man), installing it, and then finding an appropriate time and place to deploy it (while also putting other bystanders at risk). To me it seems quite a stretch. I would prefer Occam's razor on this. I think a more likely scenario is he was being surveilled (and possibly even intimidated) by feds, which led to his anxiety and paranoia (which has been established). Then he got spooked that night, thinking someone was following him (and he may have been right), and flipped out and overreacted. It's also possible his accelerator stuck and he didn't react correctly/in time. Look at my comment below: I'm not saying feds wouldn't kill a US citizen, I just dont think they chose to hack the firmware in this case. As an aside, I"m not familiar with his car but I find it hard to believe that neither the ebreak, main break, ignition, nor transmission lever (assuming it was auto) could mitigate his situation. I think they would have to hack more than just firmware, since there are mechanical linkages and/or hardware interlocks on some of those components.
- 6nf 10y ago
  I'm sorry but that thread doesn't debunk this at all
  - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
    Is there a specific claim there that says to you it isn't debunked?
    - 6nf 10y ago
      At the time former US National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke told The Huffington Post the crash was “consistent with a car cyber attack”. “There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers [know how to remotely seize control of a car],” he said.
      - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        Quite late, but that was never in question. The issue is whether this was. Also, a source on the exact quotation would be nice.

Michael Hastings? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)

by struct 10y ago

Michael Hastings? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)

1001101 10y ago

I had the same thought. Rest in peace.

knowaveragejoe 10y ago

While the above is certainly plausible(killing someone with a car), I highly doubt this is the case here: https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-michael-hastings-crash-cars-just-dont-blow-up-kim-dvorak.t2148/#post-62380 https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-michael-hastings-crash-car...

digler999 10y ago
While I don't think the CIA is above killing a US citizen on US soil (you know, for "security" or something), I don't think they need to hack a vehicle to do it, nor would they want to draw the unnecessary speculation and attention. I would expect antics like that to be reserved for high-ranking foreign officials or other hard-to-reach people. If there's one thing that agency should be expected to excel in, it's untraceable targeted killings.
- rattray 10y ago
  Given the relatively low amount of public scrutiny/outrage/attention/fear that this death caused, wouldn't you say that the car technique would be effective? (whether or not it was used in this case)
  - digler999 10y ago
    It's effective at taking a life. However I disagree that the fallout was "relatively low", compared to even a badly staged suicide, or "gang violence", "road rage", or a "botched robbery". IIRC a democratic organization employee was recently slain in DC from a "botched robbery" or something and nobody blinked an eye except in the more fringe communities. To me, that's how you snuff someone out, or OD them on insulin and have an official coroner report say "natural causes". I think a fiery single car crash at top speed is a pretty high profile event, almost up there with polonium poisoning.
    - u_wot_m8 10y ago
      seth rich, killed execution style, nothing stolen, reported a robbery. Assange implied he was the source of the DNC leaks
      - aluhut 10y ago
        Just like a guy named Jack Burkman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Burkman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Burkman who offered $105,000 against the $25,000 from the Metropolitan Police Department, for information about his death. With all parties having reasons so see Rich dead, I'd say it may become semi-relevant part in the cinematic workup of the Trump era.
      - tomjakubowski 10y ago
        What's the evidence he was killed "execution style"? Note: being shot in the back is not evidence of being killed "execution style".
        pdeuchler 10y ago
        That is literally the definition of "execution style", when you are killed at close range with no means of escape
- fnordfnordfnord 10y ago
  > I don't think they need to hack a vehicle to do it, The CIA has multiple ways to cause a death. No doubt about that. They don't "need" to use any particular method, but if they want to kill someone, that have to choose at least one method. >nor would they want to draw the unnecessary speculation and attention. What unnecessary speculation and attention? Is LAPD going to bust out their JTAG debuggers, and compare the collection of firmwares in Hastings' car to a clean sample? Practically nobody believes that the CIA/US gov't killed Hastings by hacking his car. Given the propensity for most Americans to never even consider a thing once its been labeled as a conspiracy theory, I'd say that gives about as good a cover as the CIA (or whomever) would ever need. We already have people hypothesizing this as the manner of Hastings' death; but do we see any apparent effort to dispute/disprove it? No, simply chuckle and call it a conspiracy theory. It will go away on its own without regard to whether it was in fact a conspiracy. >I would expect antics like that to be reserved for high-ranking foreign officials or other hard-to-reach people. The spies have to perfect their craft somehow. Where is it written that a method of assassination must vary by the apparent importance of the proposed victim?
  - digler999 10y ago
    why would they resort to elaborate techniques to do so when they could have someone walk up and pick him off with a gun or poison or just have him "disappeared"? You're saying instead they chose a method that requires a sophisticated firmwmare hack that may not even work (just gunning the engine is no guarantee it will kill the man), installing it, and then finding an appropriate time and place to deploy it (while also putting other bystanders at risk). To me it seems quite a stretch. I would prefer Occam's razor on this. I think a more likely scenario is he was being surveilled (and possibly even intimidated) by feds, which led to his anxiety and paranoia (which has been established). Then he got spooked that night, thinking someone was following him (and he may have been right), and flipped out and overreacted. It's also possible his accelerator stuck and he didn't react correctly/in time. Look at my comment below: I'm not saying feds wouldn't kill a US citizen, I just dont think they chose to hack the firmware in this case. As an aside, I"m not familiar with his car but I find it hard to believe that neither the ebreak, main break, ignition, nor transmission lever (assuming it was auto) could mitigate his situation. I think they would have to hack more than just firmware, since there are mechanical linkages and/or hardware interlocks on some of those components.
6nf 10y ago
I'm sorry but that thread doesn't debunk this at all
- knowaveragejoe 10y ago
  Is there a specific claim there that says to you it isn't debunked?
  - 6nf 10y ago
    At the time former US National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke told The Huffington Post the crash was “consistent with a car cyber attack”. “There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers [know how to remotely seize control of a car],” he said.
    - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
      Quite late, but that was never in question. The issue is whether this was. Also, a source on the exact quotation would be nice.