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A couple months ago I asked this question on Reddit: > Does anyone have ideas how to write a utopia that would fulfill people's need to be needed by each other

A couple months ago I asked this question on Reddit: > Does anyone have ideas how to write a utopia that would fulfill people's need to be needed by each other, rather than just their material needs? And got an amazing response from user "fubo": > Cross OKCupid with TaskRabbit: the AI tells you what favors to do for people to get you to love each other. I wish the internet would grow into something like that, instead of making people more isolated under the guise of "social", "sharing" etc.

jordanb 10y ago
That transactional view of love is exactly the sort of technomyopia I would expect from the HN crowd.
- FLUX-YOU 10y ago
  What's weird is you could probably find people to buy into that model on both sides, making it completely valid.
  - 1337biz 10y ago
    Isn't that called a sugar daddy/mommy relationship?
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  So why are you here? To laugh at people looking for solutions to problems using well-defined means, as opposed to continuing in the usual ambiguous, gut-feeling-driven thinking? I for one like this kind of "technomyopia", because it works off a framework that lets humans eventually figure things out.
  - edmccard 10y ago
    >So why are you here? To laugh at people looking for solutions to problems using well-defined means... No, to laugh at people who think that because they have a hammer, that every problem is a nail, and maybe also the people who believe that the analogy is really really true, so long as you're using the magic hammer of technology.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      If you know of any other effective way of solving problems other than applying broadly understood science and technology, please share. You may save the world and win a few prizes with that.
      - pjc50 10y ago
        Social problems tend to require a different, fuzzier toolkit that involves emotional labour. Especially when you're working with areas that are not broadly understood. You're starting from the assumption that only those types of solution are valid, whereas most social change is neither scientific nor technological but word-driven and operating in the emotional domain. Starting from the assumption that every worthwhile problem must have a scientific or technical solution is exactly the hammer looking for nail that comments here are complaining about.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        I'm not arguing that emotions are to be ignored, or that the area is understood. It's not. But still, science is literally, if broadly, defined as the method of figuring things out that actually works. Maybe the OP was just meaning to criticize the app idea, but the way they wrote, it looks like a general criticism of technology as a problem solver - criticism I believe is naïve and unwarranted. > most social change is neither scientific nor technological but word-driven and operating in the emotional domain I disagree with that, but that's a longer discussion about technological determinism.
      - edmccard 10y ago
        >If you know of any other effective way of solving problems other than applying broadly understood science and technology I think it's possible to believe in the efficacy of science and technology, while at the same time doubting that crossing OKCupid with TaskRabbit will usher in "a utopia that would fulfill people's need to be needed by each other" (which is the concept that started this whole subthread)
        10y ago
  - zaptheimpaler 10y ago
    I get where you're coming from. Its just that technology is not the right framework to attack all problems. The app OP mentioned is essentially a tool to track trading favors between people - its not anywhere close to "love". In fact the addiction to tech, social media, smartphones etc. is making us spend less real face-face time with people (well-documented), so I would say its precisely the wrong tool to use. Not saying we should give up, but this is a social problem, better analyzed with more apt tools like social science. Relationships grow with time & investment in interacting with someone else - given that, no amount of "apps" or tech magic can make a fundamental difference.
    - nitrogen 10y ago
      It was probbably a joke, but such an app could be incredibly valuable to those who were perpetually ostracized in their youth and never learned how to interact. Simple things like, "Thank him for this," or, "Tell her she's really good at that," might not even occur to some people who were never exposed to anyone who demonstrated those things.
      - beaconstudios 10y ago
        it would certainly be a good cue system for people with mild autism/aspbergers, or social difficulties.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      All fair points. I was addressing the very general criticism OP expressed. Even the social science you mentioned, when done right, is part of the "science and technology" toolbox.
- malux85 10y ago
  It would have to be atomic, isolated and consistent.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  As opposed to biomyopia, where love just magically arises from ether and happiness and babies are created, without regard for anything else.
vinceguidry 10y ago
Social acceptance has never been easy. You either have to submit to the tyranny of group identification, or go forever lonely. People are looking for a magic solution, something that will allow them to find love and acceptance without actually being forced to give any back. It doesn't matter whether you're joining an 18th century gentleman's club or looking for a healthy relationship. Love and acceptance comes from understanding and meeting the other's emotional needs. If you think about what it takes to actually do that for another person, you'll find out why people watch rom-coms. Meeting someone else's needs feels like living under a dictator.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  >You either have to submit to the tyranny of group identification, or go forever lonely. I think the solution to that is to have more group identities and subcultures, and better ways to discover them.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    Won't make the act of submitting to group identity any easier. You can already go online and find any number of identities, from chainsaw enthusiast to Sonic the Hedgehog furry. If you want one, you can find one. Most people who are lonely don't.
pjc50 10y ago
That's turning interpersonal relationships into romance quests. That's an especially terrible idea. > I wish the internet would grow into something like that That could be great, but how would it be paid for?
- r1chard5mith 10y ago
  Advertising.
Aaargh20318 10y ago
> Does anyone have ideas how to write a utopia that would fulfill people's need to be needed by each other What if you don't have a need like that ? The only reason I wouldn't sign up for a one-way trip to Mars is because they would probably want to send other people too.
kazagistar 10y ago
For me, a key piece of friendship is that you don't have to track favors. There is always going to be c an imbalance, but being aware of it can only harm.

jordanb 10y ago

That transactional view of love is exactly the sort of technomyopia I would expect from the HN crowd.

FLUX-YOU 10y ago
What's weird is you could probably find people to buy into that model on both sides, making it completely valid.
- 1337biz 10y ago
  Isn't that called a sugar daddy/mommy relationship?
TeMPOraL 10y ago
So why are you here? To laugh at people looking for solutions to problems using well-defined means, as opposed to continuing in the usual ambiguous, gut-feeling-driven thinking? I for one like this kind of "technomyopia", because it works off a framework that lets humans eventually figure things out.
- edmccard 10y ago
  >So why are you here? To laugh at people looking for solutions to problems using well-defined means... No, to laugh at people who think that because they have a hammer, that every problem is a nail, and maybe also the people who believe that the analogy is really really true, so long as you're using the magic hammer of technology.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    If you know of any other effective way of solving problems other than applying broadly understood science and technology, please share. You may save the world and win a few prizes with that.
    - pjc50 10y ago
      Social problems tend to require a different, fuzzier toolkit that involves emotional labour. Especially when you're working with areas that are not broadly understood. You're starting from the assumption that only those types of solution are valid, whereas most social change is neither scientific nor technological but word-driven and operating in the emotional domain. Starting from the assumption that every worthwhile problem must have a scientific or technical solution is exactly the hammer looking for nail that comments here are complaining about.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        I'm not arguing that emotions are to be ignored, or that the area is understood. It's not. But still, science is literally, if broadly, defined as the method of figuring things out that actually works. Maybe the OP was just meaning to criticize the app idea, but the way they wrote, it looks like a general criticism of technology as a problem solver - criticism I believe is naïve and unwarranted. > most social change is neither scientific nor technological but word-driven and operating in the emotional domain I disagree with that, but that's a longer discussion about technological determinism.
    - edmccard 10y ago
      >If you know of any other effective way of solving problems other than applying broadly understood science and technology I think it's possible to believe in the efficacy of science and technology, while at the same time doubting that crossing OKCupid with TaskRabbit will usher in "a utopia that would fulfill people's need to be needed by each other" (which is the concept that started this whole subthread)
      - 10y ago
- zaptheimpaler 10y ago
  I get where you're coming from. Its just that technology is not the right framework to attack all problems. The app OP mentioned is essentially a tool to track trading favors between people - its not anywhere close to "love". In fact the addiction to tech, social media, smartphones etc. is making us spend less real face-face time with people (well-documented), so I would say its precisely the wrong tool to use. Not saying we should give up, but this is a social problem, better analyzed with more apt tools like social science. Relationships grow with time & investment in interacting with someone else - given that, no amount of "apps" or tech magic can make a fundamental difference.
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    It was probbably a joke, but such an app could be incredibly valuable to those who were perpetually ostracized in their youth and never learned how to interact. Simple things like, "Thank him for this," or, "Tell her she's really good at that," might not even occur to some people who were never exposed to anyone who demonstrated those things.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      it would certainly be a good cue system for people with mild autism/aspbergers, or social difficulties.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    All fair points. I was addressing the very general criticism OP expressed. Even the social science you mentioned, when done right, is part of the "science and technology" toolbox.
malux85 10y ago
It would have to be atomic, isolated and consistent.
antisthenes 10y ago
As opposed to biomyopia, where love just magically arises from ether and happiness and babies are created, without regard for anything else.

vinceguidry 10y ago

Social acceptance has never been easy. You either have to submit to the tyranny of group identification, or go forever lonely. People are looking for a magic solution, something that will allow them to find love and acceptance without actually being forced to give any back. It doesn't matter whether you're joining an 18th century gentleman's club or looking for a healthy relationship. Love and acceptance comes from understanding and meeting the other's emotional needs. If you think about what it takes to actually do that for another person, you'll find out why people watch rom-coms. Meeting someone else's needs feels like living under a dictator.

aninhumer 10y ago
>You either have to submit to the tyranny of group identification, or go forever lonely. I think the solution to that is to have more group identities and subcultures, and better ways to discover them.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  Won't make the act of submitting to group identity any easier. You can already go online and find any number of identities, from chainsaw enthusiast to Sonic the Hedgehog furry. If you want one, you can find one. Most people who are lonely don't.

pjc50 10y ago

That's turning interpersonal relationships into romance quests. That's an especially terrible idea. > I wish the internet would grow into something like that That could be great, but how would it be paid for?

r1chard5mith 10y ago
Advertising.

Aaargh20318 10y ago

> Does anyone have ideas how to write a utopia that would fulfill people's need to be needed by each other What if you don't have a need like that ? The only reason I wouldn't sign up for a one-way trip to Mars is because they would probably want to send other people too.

kazagistar 10y ago

For me, a key piece of friendship is that you don't have to track favors. There is always going to be c an imbalance, but being aware of it can only harm.