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But to regard hubris as “playing God” is, first, a modern perspective, and second, a secular one. This seems true; the "God" invoked in this phrase is not the

by macrael 16y ago

But to regard hubris as “playing God” is, first, a modern perspective, and second, a secular one. This seems true; the "God" invoked in this phrase is not the religious God but more the God represented by nature and that sense of the natural order. I think that the reason this notion has become popular in recent history is that it is only in the last hundred years or so that our technology has advanced to the point where we can really fundamentally disrupt the balance created here by four and a half billion years of evolution. I'm not sure it is fair to single out creating life as especially dangerous as, to me, there are many abilities we have that wield similar amounts of power. I think of cane toads in Australia and the oil spill in the gulf and climate change. All of these are evidence of hubris, of mistakes with long term consequences and few good solutions. Creating and modifying life (something we have been in the business of doing for quite some time) does fit into this category. We are messing with with incredibly complex systems we don't near fully understand. It's science and it's exciting and we are advancing our knowledge but the possible consequences are indeed dire. I'm not trying to preach anti-technology or anything and I don't think that the fact that we are indeed "playing God" should stop us from pursuing this research and these ideas. But I do think that it is something to be mindful of. We only have the one earth. EDIT: hugh3 said it better than I did: '"Playing God" to me is just a turn of phrase, shorthand (and somewhat cliched) for "messing with powers beyond your understanding or ability to control".'

yummyfajitas 16y ago
...it is only in the last hundred years or so that our technology has advanced to the point where we can really fundamentally disrupt the balance created here by four and a half billion years of evolution... This statement is so wrong I don't even know where to start. For hundreds (if not thousands) of years humans have dramatically altered their natural environment by cultivating land, hunting various animals to extinction and selective breeding. However, evolution never achieved a "balance" for humans to disrupt. Evolution and "balance" are almost diametrically opposite. Are you under the impression that after 4 billion years of evolution, we finally reached a stable terminal point, only to be disrupted by naughty humans?
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  Agreed, before we built cities we were cutting down forests for farmland. Before we built farms, we burnt down forests to create savannah to expand the grazing land so we could herd more cattle (yes, there was a disturbing trend 100,000's of years ago - up to about 1 million years ago - that wherever mankind lived, fire occurrence went through the roof) People conveniently overlook our past whilst condemning our present. I'm sorry to all those people who blindly don't see, but we are god. We aren't playing as this secular god, we have been it since long before we even acquired fire. At our present point we can change the world in a heartbeat. If an ice age begins, we have the ability to produce vast quantities of green house gasses far more potent than CO2 or methane. Similarly, if the planet starts heating dramatically, we have the ability to release vast quantities of SO2 into the upper atmosphere and force the planet into a global dimming cycle like it was in between the 1960's-90's. Similarly, with our construction of vast arrays of wind turbines there has been a noticeable decline in wind speeds in those areas. Incidentally, something many people have failed to remember from basic high school physics is that generators can act as motors and vice versa. If it ever came to it, we have the ability to change the direction of winds in localised areas. There's even debate over whether we have the ability to cause the formation of rain (we invariably can heat+water, it just takes a lot more effort than the cloud seeding hocus pocus method), and scientists around the world regularly cause lightening. Really, what do humans do that is not attributed to a god?
  - macrael 16y ago
    The whole point of this phrase is to give us pause as we consider how to use these massive powers. We clearly have the ability to effect these changes, but your seeming confidence in our ability to easily solve massive problems only reinforces how important our humility is. Case in point, we accidentally dumped millions of gallons of oil into the ocean, causing a huge mess. One solution, has been using chemicals to disperse the oil, but now after trying that strategy for a bit, we are scaling back its use for fear of causing more problems. These systems we are trying to change a monstrously large and complicated and we don't understand them completely enough to be able to know the concequences of our actions. That is why we must be cautious when "playing God" I mean, it is hard enough to change pieces of an OS without having unintended consequences, and that is a system entirely of our own creation.

by macrael 16y ago

yummyfajitas 16y ago

...it is only in the last hundred years or so that our technology has advanced to the point where we can really fundamentally disrupt the balance created here by four and a half billion years of evolution... This statement is so wrong I don't even know where to start. For hundreds (if not thousands) of years humans have dramatically altered their natural environment by cultivating land, hunting various animals to extinction and selective breeding. However, evolution never achieved a "balance" for humans to disrupt. Evolution and "balance" are almost diametrically opposite. Are you under the impression that after 4 billion years of evolution, we finally reached a stable terminal point, only to be disrupted by naughty humans?

electromagnetic 16y ago
Agreed, before we built cities we were cutting down forests for farmland. Before we built farms, we burnt down forests to create savannah to expand the grazing land so we could herd more cattle (yes, there was a disturbing trend 100,000's of years ago - up to about 1 million years ago - that wherever mankind lived, fire occurrence went through the roof) People conveniently overlook our past whilst condemning our present. I'm sorry to all those people who blindly don't see, but we are god. We aren't playing as this secular god, we have been it since long before we even acquired fire. At our present point we can change the world in a heartbeat. If an ice age begins, we have the ability to produce vast quantities of green house gasses far more potent than CO2 or methane. Similarly, if the planet starts heating dramatically, we have the ability to release vast quantities of SO2 into the upper atmosphere and force the planet into a global dimming cycle like it was in between the 1960's-90's. Similarly, with our construction of vast arrays of wind turbines there has been a noticeable decline in wind speeds in those areas. Incidentally, something many people have failed to remember from basic high school physics is that generators can act as motors and vice versa. If it ever came to it, we have the ability to change the direction of winds in localised areas. There's even debate over whether we have the ability to cause the formation of rain (we invariably can heat+water, it just takes a lot more effort than the cloud seeding hocus pocus method), and scientists around the world regularly cause lightening. Really, what do humans do that is not attributed to a god?
- macrael 16y ago
  The whole point of this phrase is to give us pause as we consider how to use these massive powers. We clearly have the ability to effect these changes, but your seeming confidence in our ability to easily solve massive problems only reinforces how important our humility is. Case in point, we accidentally dumped millions of gallons of oil into the ocean, causing a huge mess. One solution, has been using chemicals to disperse the oil, but now after trying that strategy for a bit, we are scaling back its use for fear of causing more problems. These systems we are trying to change a monstrously large and complicated and we don't understand them completely enough to be able to know the concequences of our actions. That is why we must be cautious when "playing God" I mean, it is hard enough to change pieces of an OS without having unintended consequences, and that is a system entirely of our own creation.