4 ms·

If a 12% single day drop doesn't count as a tumble then what would in your definition?

option_greek 10y ago
Not to mention list price usually acts as a good floor (unless the IPO was overpriced to begin with).
encoderer 10y ago
You have to take it in context of relative volatility. There are products where a 12% move wouldn't be notable. In this case, it's under a week old. This expected volatility is why market makers do not sell options on ipo issues for a little while. These kinds of stories are like basing a climate change story on unseasonably warm weather.
- beejiu 10y ago
  In other words, people are using the market to determine the valuation rather than using the valuation to determine the market.
  - gcb0 10y ago
    that's how it goes for companies without real profit.
    - ryanfreeborn 10y ago
      At least until after a few 10ks
  - encoderer 10y ago
    This is how the market works. It's crowd sourcing valuations. It's not a bad thing. Do you have a better way to determine the valuation of a complex business?
    - fixermark 10y ago
      Sample over a wider time-window (a quarter, at least, seems reasonable; a year if you really want a sense of the business's pulse). Motion in the stock right now is noise; possibly profitable noise for some people, but there's very little to draw conclusions from in these post-IPO fluctuations.
    - beejiu 10y ago
      The purpose of the market is not to determine valuations, it is to facilitate transactions. The transactions happen at different prices (very close together) - the idea is the market participants (buyers and sellers) have their own ideas about valuation and enter transactions accordingly. All else is speculation.
      - JumpCrisscross 10y ago
        > the purpose of the market is not to determine valuations Promoting price discovery [1] is one of the fundamental features and functions of a market. Side note: the line between "speculation" and "investing," where the former refers to short-term shareholding and the latter to a specific set of Graham-Dodd valuation models, is not a general economic term. It only makes sense when discussing Graham-Dodd investment styles, which are a subset of long-term financial investment styles, which are themselves a subset of the market. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discovery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discovery
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
xiaoma 10y ago
I lost about 50% on my Apple stock in a single day shortly after buying it during the early 2000s. I didn't mean the company's actual business had drastically deteriorated. It just meant that shares I had previously evaluated to be a good purchase were now on sale and it was time to buy more.

Not to mention list price usually acts as a good floor (unless the IPO was overpriced to begin with).

You have to take it in context of relative volatility. There are products where a 12% move wouldn't be notable. In this case, it's under a week old. This expected volatility is why market makers do not sell options on ipo issues for a little while. These kinds of stories are like basing a climate change story on unseasonably warm weather.

beejiu 10y ago
In other words, people are using the market to determine the valuation rather than using the valuation to determine the market.
- gcb0 10y ago
  that's how it goes for companies without real profit.
  - ryanfreeborn 10y ago
    At least until after a few 10ks
- encoderer 10y ago
  This is how the market works. It's crowd sourcing valuations. It's not a bad thing. Do you have a better way to determine the valuation of a complex business?
  - fixermark 10y ago
    Sample over a wider time-window (a quarter, at least, seems reasonable; a year if you really want a sense of the business's pulse). Motion in the stock right now is noise; possibly profitable noise for some people, but there's very little to draw conclusions from in these post-IPO fluctuations.
  - beejiu 10y ago
    The purpose of the market is not to determine valuations, it is to facilitate transactions. The transactions happen at different prices (very close together) - the idea is the market participants (buyers and sellers) have their own ideas about valuation and enter transactions accordingly. All else is speculation.
    - JumpCrisscross 10y ago
      > the purpose of the market is not to determine valuations Promoting price discovery [1] is one of the fundamental features and functions of a market. Side note: the line between "speculation" and "investing," where the former refers to short-term shareholding and the latter to a specific set of Graham-Dodd valuation models, is not a general economic term. It only makes sense when discussing Graham-Dodd investment styles, which are a subset of long-term financial investment styles, which are themselves a subset of the market. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discovery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discovery
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]

xiaoma 10y ago

I lost about 50% on my Apple stock in a single day shortly after buying it during the early 2000s. I didn't mean the company's actual business had drastically deteriorated. It just meant that shares I had previously evaluated to be a good purchase were now on sale and it was time to buy more.