9 ms·

They seem to have underestimated the speed at which trolls can ruin everything. This, of course, is why we can't have nice things.

by hugh3 16y ago

pavs 16y ago
After reading some of the comments on their website I have hard time distinguishing trolls from republican talking points. Also Poe's Law: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poes+Law http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poes+Law
- endtime 16y ago
  This is what they get for pandering to the lowest common denominator. I was probably going to vote McCain...until I met Sarah Palin. Now, instead of having me wanting to participate in this (and I hope I don't flatter myself by thinking I could make better suggestions than those in the article), they've got, well, Palin fans, and you can't tell the signal from the noise.
- xenophanes 16y ago
  You've made a troll quality insult against Republicans ("Republicans sound like trolls" without any argument, details, quote, etc). Hmm. Trolling about trolling. Meta irony, I hope?
  - jbooth 16y ago
    He said that they've become so extreme and fundamentalist that Poe's law applied -- that their own honest statements have reached the point where they look like self-parody. You can agree or disagree, but he definitely made an argument with the Poe's law citation.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    "We should not allow Muslims to enter the country." Is this statement a troll, or what someone actually believes? There's enough wrong with it that I could believe it's a troll, and yet I've honestly met people who would be completely sincere in saying it. Browse around a little more, and you'll find many other statements like it. Part of me hopes it's just idiotic trolls ruining what could have been constructive dialogue, but unfortunately I know that some of these posts are completely sincere.
    - xenophanes 16y ago
      Heh, nice quote, I can't tell! Edit: Yes, I took it to be a real quote.
      - jokermatt999 16y ago
        Actually, that's actually a real example I found in the National Defense section. So far, that seems to be the worst minefield for "troll vs true".
    - lurkinggrue 16y ago
      We need to stop Muslin from getting into this country! That damn loosely-woven cotton fabric keeps getting in here. Yeah, what is sad is it is way too easy to troll in a place like that and come off as sincere as many actual arguments there are just as insane.
    - mynameishere 16y ago
      Should Persia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, India, Spain, the Balkans, etc, etc, have allowed Muslims to enter their respective countries?
      - jbooth 16y ago
        Heh. Don't beat around the bush, man. Spell it out for us. What're you saying here?
- bartl 16y ago
  >After reading some of the comments on their website I have hard time distinguishing trolls from republican talking points. That's indeed the most interesting aspect of the whole story.
- jerf 16y ago
  "After reading some of the comments on their website I have hard time distinguishing trolls from republican talking points." Look, can't we come together under the banner of mutual brotherhood and fraternity and agree that Internet trolls can't be held against any political view? Can't we all come together and agree that whatever our differences, at least we can look down our noses at that lot? Do you really think it would be that different if the Democrats had put up the same site? Or Libertarians, or Labour? The stupidity of raw internet conversation transcends political boundaries.
  - rottencupcakes 16y ago
    Is Conservapedia a giant troll wiki or is it legit? I'm almost convinced it has to be satire. Bookmarked sections in this (http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism) article include: "Commonly Cited Arguments Against Atheism and For Theism", "Atheism and Mass Murder", "Atheism and Immoral Views" The abortion article even cites Hitler as being a proponent of abortion. It's even funnier than the atheism one. http://www.conservapedia.com/Abortion http://www.conservapedia.com/Abortion
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    If anyone doubts it would be different if the Dems made such a site: "We must not stop until the American people win the war on Health-Care [...] Our leaders today are nothing short of Angels. “Gods Elect” put in power by God for his people and his world." http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/dalecourtney?page=1 http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/dalecourtney?p...
    - pyre 16y ago
      I think the point that was trying to be made is that it seems like the majority of Republicans (or at least the majority of the vocal ones) hold views that border on self-satire to the point where you almost can't be sure if someone is trolling or serious. I think that you were be hard-pressed to find someone that believes that the majority Democrats believe that God put their leaders into power. Especially since (at least in my opinion) a majority of America views the Democrats as being associated with Atheism/science (e.g. Creationism vs Evolution).
lukev 16y ago
I'd have more sympathy, except that attempting to establish policy by soliciting on a public, unmoderated website is a ludicrous idea to begin with. It's got about the same validity as Fox News running a radiobutton poll on their website on "Is Obama really a citizen?"
- hugh3 16y ago
  Are you saying politicians shouldn't listen to the people when developing policy ideas? If people actually used such a website in good faith then it could potentially produce some useful ideas and allow them to percolate upwards to party policymakers. They shouldn't blindly pick whatever ideas turn out to be popular on their website, but it might bring up some things they hadn't thought of before.
  - DrSprout 16y ago
    >If people actually used such a website in good faith But they don't, which is the point of his comment.
  - lukev 16y ago
    The sad part is they feel a website like this is necessary. They're professional politicians in a democratic country. They should already be in touch with their constituency. They should have a chain of advisement and direction built all the way from local caucuses at the precinct level. And if they were serious about making the project more efficient by taking it online, they should have a registration-based website with registration tied to actual party membership and heavily moderated to allow only articulate arguments.
    - pyre 16y ago
      > they should have a registration-based website with registration tied to actual party membership So if I'm in an area that is represented by a member of another party, then my voice deserves less weight than the voice of someone that is a member of that party?
kljensen 16y ago
Right. An intern doing a "sanity/troll" moderating would make it a respectable effort.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Well, I did see one comment that said it had been removed due to flagging by the community. So it's likely that they are getting on top of this problem, and that the author of this article just happened to drop by just after a massive troll influx thanks to 4chan or democraticunderground.
- chbarts 16y ago
  However, how do you moderate for "sanity" without just moderating for "ideas we already like"? Maybe they honestly want a self-reinforcement echo chamber, but that doesn't seem very useful to me. It's the old problem of how you know if someone's being honest, which is hard enough to do when you have face-to-face contact with full nonverbal clues. Are there ideas nobody holds honestly?

They seem to have underestimated the speed at which trolls can ruin everything. This, of course, is why we can't have nice things.

by hugh3 16y ago

They seem to have underestimated the speed at which trolls can ruin everything. This, of course, is why we can't have nice things.

pavs 16y ago

After reading some of the comments on their website I have hard time distinguishing trolls from republican talking points. Also Poe's Law: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poes+Law http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poes+Law

endtime 16y ago
This is what they get for pandering to the lowest common denominator. I was probably going to vote McCain...until I met Sarah Palin. Now, instead of having me wanting to participate in this (and I hope I don't flatter myself by thinking I could make better suggestions than those in the article), they've got, well, Palin fans, and you can't tell the signal from the noise.
xenophanes 16y ago
You've made a troll quality insult against Republicans ("Republicans sound like trolls" without any argument, details, quote, etc). Hmm. Trolling about trolling. Meta irony, I hope?
- jbooth 16y ago
  He said that they've become so extreme and fundamentalist that Poe's law applied -- that their own honest statements have reached the point where they look like self-parody. You can agree or disagree, but he definitely made an argument with the Poe's law citation.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  "We should not allow Muslims to enter the country." Is this statement a troll, or what someone actually believes? There's enough wrong with it that I could believe it's a troll, and yet I've honestly met people who would be completely sincere in saying it. Browse around a little more, and you'll find many other statements like it. Part of me hopes it's just idiotic trolls ruining what could have been constructive dialogue, but unfortunately I know that some of these posts are completely sincere.
  - xenophanes 16y ago
    Heh, nice quote, I can't tell! Edit: Yes, I took it to be a real quote.
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      Actually, that's actually a real example I found in the National Defense section. So far, that seems to be the worst minefield for "troll vs true".
  - lurkinggrue 16y ago
    We need to stop Muslin from getting into this country! That damn loosely-woven cotton fabric keeps getting in here. Yeah, what is sad is it is way too easy to troll in a place like that and come off as sincere as many actual arguments there are just as insane.
  - mynameishere 16y ago
    Should Persia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, India, Spain, the Balkans, etc, etc, have allowed Muslims to enter their respective countries?
    - jbooth 16y ago
      Heh. Don't beat around the bush, man. Spell it out for us. What're you saying here?
bartl 16y ago
>After reading some of the comments on their website I have hard time distinguishing trolls from republican talking points. That's indeed the most interesting aspect of the whole story.
jerf 16y ago
"After reading some of the comments on their website I have hard time distinguishing trolls from republican talking points." Look, can't we come together under the banner of mutual brotherhood and fraternity and agree that Internet trolls can't be held against any political view? Can't we all come together and agree that whatever our differences, at least we can look down our noses at that lot? Do you really think it would be that different if the Democrats had put up the same site? Or Libertarians, or Labour? The stupidity of raw internet conversation transcends political boundaries.
- rottencupcakes 16y ago
  Is Conservapedia a giant troll wiki or is it legit? I'm almost convinced it has to be satire. Bookmarked sections in this (http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism) article include: "Commonly Cited Arguments Against Atheism and For Theism", "Atheism and Mass Murder", "Atheism and Immoral Views" The abortion article even cites Hitler as being a proponent of abortion. It's even funnier than the atheism one. http://www.conservapedia.com/Abortion http://www.conservapedia.com/Abortion
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  If anyone doubts it would be different if the Dems made such a site: "We must not stop until the American people win the war on Health-Care [...] Our leaders today are nothing short of Angels. “Gods Elect” put in power by God for his people and his world." http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/dalecourtney?page=1 http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/dalecourtney?p...
  - pyre 16y ago
    I think the point that was trying to be made is that it seems like the majority of Republicans (or at least the majority of the vocal ones) hold views that border on self-satire to the point where you almost can't be sure if someone is trolling or serious. I think that you were be hard-pressed to find someone that believes that the majority Democrats believe that God put their leaders into power. Especially since (at least in my opinion) a majority of America views the Democrats as being associated with Atheism/science (e.g. Creationism vs Evolution).

lukev 16y ago

I'd have more sympathy, except that attempting to establish policy by soliciting on a public, unmoderated website is a ludicrous idea to begin with. It's got about the same validity as Fox News running a radiobutton poll on their website on "Is Obama really a citizen?"

hugh3 16y ago
Are you saying politicians shouldn't listen to the people when developing policy ideas? If people actually used such a website in good faith then it could potentially produce some useful ideas and allow them to percolate upwards to party policymakers. They shouldn't blindly pick whatever ideas turn out to be popular on their website, but it might bring up some things they hadn't thought of before.
- DrSprout 16y ago
  >If people actually used such a website in good faith But they don't, which is the point of his comment.
- lukev 16y ago
  The sad part is they feel a website like this is necessary. They're professional politicians in a democratic country. They should already be in touch with their constituency. They should have a chain of advisement and direction built all the way from local caucuses at the precinct level. And if they were serious about making the project more efficient by taking it online, they should have a registration-based website with registration tied to actual party membership and heavily moderated to allow only articulate arguments.
  - pyre 16y ago
    > they should have a registration-based website with registration tied to actual party membership So if I'm in an area that is represented by a member of another party, then my voice deserves less weight than the voice of someone that is a member of that party?

kljensen 16y ago

Right. An intern doing a "sanity/troll" moderating would make it a respectable effort.

hugh3 16y ago
Well, I did see one comment that said it had been removed due to flagging by the community. So it's likely that they are getting on top of this problem, and that the author of this article just happened to drop by just after a massive troll influx thanks to 4chan or democraticunderground.
chbarts 16y ago
However, how do you moderate for "sanity" without just moderating for "ideas we already like"? Maybe they honestly want a self-reinforcement echo chamber, but that doesn't seem very useful to me. It's the old problem of how you know if someone's being honest, which is hard enough to do when you have face-to-face contact with full nonverbal clues. Are there ideas nobody holds honestly?