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Mass accepting out-of-state students is most certainly not a solution, it's a band-aid (not to mention it basically screws California taxpayers). The solution w

by dvt 10y ago

Mass accepting out-of-state students is most certainly not a solution, it's a band-aid (not to mention it basically screws California taxpayers). The solution would be to just increase state funding AND cap out-of-state admit rates. It's very hard for Berkeley and UCLA to stay competitive with Stanford and Caltech (and the Ivy League) when their private counterparts not only offer better financial aid for at-need low-income students, but are also starting to be in the same ballpark for in-state middle-class students. Not only that, but the main idea behind the UC system is that it was intended for California students first. UCLA had over 100,000 applications last year, the most out of any other school, public or private. I am completely okay with declining out-of-state students in favor of comparable California students. It's just that to afford that, the UC system needs more money. Heck, I even think price gouging out-of-state applicants could work.

hkmurakami 10y ago
Frankly it's a travesty that the state is funding SF-LA high speed rail with questionable need and returns over its students.
stale2002 10y ago
"it basically screws California taxpayers" It does literally the opposite. Out of state people are a net money gain, not a net money loss. The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept.
- __derek__ 10y ago
  Maybe. There is some upper-limit to the number of students the system can admit. Enrolling out-of-state students is a net gain if the they stay in California and are productive enough to outweigh the productivity of the in-state students they push out and the potentially lost productivity from those students' going to non-UC schools.
  - zodiac 10y ago
    How do out of state students "push out" in state students?
    - azernik 10y ago
      I happen to think out-of-state students are good for the system, but just to play devil's advocate here: There may be a limit to how fast new capacity can be brought online, even with an increased budget; in that case, the increase needs to be a) slowed down to match the rate of investment, and b) distributed to the new campuses where new capacity is being added. This last is actually a result of the new policy, though I'm worried that these caps would remain even after capacity has caught up.
- dvt 10y ago
  > The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept. Except that classes are overcrowded, understaffed, and underfunded[1]. There might be a balance, but we're not there yet.. and what we're doing isn't working. [1] https://theaggie.org/2016/10/12/ucs-overcrowded-and-underfunded/ https://theaggie.org/2016/10/12/ucs-overcrowded-and-underfun...
  - literallycancer 10y ago
    As in the classes are overcrowded? Insufficient housing capacity isn't such a big problem, even though it surprised me to see that putting 3 people into 1 room is still a thing in the US. At UCLA, triple occupancy rooms now account for 73 percent of all student housing, and the Westwood campus is quickly running out of room for expansion. Because of the lack of student housing at UC Berkeley, some students are being housed at Mills College in Oakland — a 25-minute shuttle ride away.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Correct. And removing the out of staters would make the classes more underfunded, and more understaffed, because they have less money.
kalleboo 10y ago
> Heck, I even think price gouging out-of-state applicants could work. From the article I gathered that's exactly what they're doing right now, and it's working great. But the optics are bad for politics so they have to ruin it. UC spokeswoman Dianne Klein said the proposed policy balanced the needs of California students with the benefits those outside students bring — diverse perspectives as well as millions in additional tuition revenue, which added up to nearly $550 million in 2016-17. Those dollars have helped UC increase its enrollment of California students to historical highs this year, Klein said, even as state support per UC student has fallen to less than half of what it was two decades ago. Klein said the extra dollars from nonresidents — who pay about $27,000 more in annual tuition than Californians — have helped campuses recruit and retain faculty, add courses to lower overall class sizes, and purchase library materials, instructional equipment and technology. The nonresident revenue also has boosted financial aid for Californians by an average $700 per student, she said. UCLA Chancellor Gene Block said the nonresident dollars provided a lifeline for the campus after state support for undergraduate education dropped significantly after the 2008 recession. Thanks to the extra money, UCLA was able to add courses, which has helped students shorten the time needed to graduate to less than four years.
mulmen 10y ago
If you think price gouging out of state applicants could work and that is what they are already doing then why are you not in favor of accepting out of state students? How does this screw California taxpayers? Is UCLA over capacity?
- dvt 10y ago
  > Is UCLA over capacity? Not just UCLA. So is Berkeley and to a lesser extent UCSD and UCI.

by dvt 10y ago

hkmurakami 10y ago

Frankly it's a travesty that the state is funding SF-LA high speed rail with questionable need and returns over its students.

stale2002 10y ago

"it basically screws California taxpayers" It does literally the opposite. Out of state people are a net money gain, not a net money loss. The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept.

__derek__ 10y ago
Maybe. There is some upper-limit to the number of students the system can admit. Enrolling out-of-state students is a net gain if the they stay in California and are productive enough to outweigh the productivity of the in-state students they push out and the potentially lost productivity from those students' going to non-UC schools.
- zodiac 10y ago
  How do out of state students "push out" in state students?
  - azernik 10y ago
    I happen to think out-of-state students are good for the system, but just to play devil's advocate here: There may be a limit to how fast new capacity can be brought online, even with an increased budget; in that case, the increase needs to be a) slowed down to match the rate of investment, and b) distributed to the new campuses where new capacity is being added. This last is actually a result of the new policy, though I'm worried that these caps would remain even after capacity has caught up.
dvt 10y ago
> The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept. Except that classes are overcrowded, understaffed, and underfunded[1]. There might be a balance, but we're not there yet.. and what we're doing isn't working. [1] https://theaggie.org/2016/10/12/ucs-overcrowded-and-underfunded/ https://theaggie.org/2016/10/12/ucs-overcrowded-and-underfun...
- literallycancer 10y ago
  As in the classes are overcrowded? Insufficient housing capacity isn't such a big problem, even though it surprised me to see that putting 3 people into 1 room is still a thing in the US. At UCLA, triple occupancy rooms now account for 73 percent of all student housing, and the Westwood campus is quickly running out of room for expansion. Because of the lack of student housing at UC Berkeley, some students are being housed at Mills College in Oakland — a 25-minute shuttle ride away.
- stale2002 10y ago
  Correct. And removing the out of staters would make the classes more underfunded, and more understaffed, because they have less money.

kalleboo 10y ago

> Heck, I even think price gouging out-of-state applicants could work. From the article I gathered that's exactly what they're doing right now, and it's working great. But the optics are bad for politics so they have to ruin it. UC spokeswoman Dianne Klein said the proposed policy balanced the needs of California students with the benefits those outside students bring — diverse perspectives as well as millions in additional tuition revenue, which added up to nearly $550 million in 2016-17. Those dollars have helped UC increase its enrollment of California students to historical highs this year, Klein said, even as state support per UC student has fallen to less than half of what it was two decades ago. Klein said the extra dollars from nonresidents — who pay about $27,000 more in annual tuition than Californians — have helped campuses recruit and retain faculty, add courses to lower overall class sizes, and purchase library materials, instructional equipment and technology. The nonresident revenue also has boosted financial aid for Californians by an average $700 per student, she said. UCLA Chancellor Gene Block said the nonresident dollars provided a lifeline for the campus after state support for undergraduate education dropped significantly after the 2008 recession. Thanks to the extra money, UCLA was able to add courses, which has helped students shorten the time needed to graduate to less than four years.

mulmen 10y ago

If you think price gouging out of state applicants could work and that is what they are already doing then why are you not in favor of accepting out of state students? How does this screw California taxpayers? Is UCLA over capacity?

dvt 10y ago
> Is UCLA over capacity? Not just UCLA. So is Berkeley and to a lesser extent UCSD and UCI.