4 ms·

That's because nonresident admissions don't reduce the absolute number of Californians the system can support! They pay much more in tuition than the UC spends

by yaacov 10y ago

That's because nonresident admissions don't reduce the absolute number of Californians the system can support! They pay much more in tuition than the UC spends on their education, and much of the remainder gets spent on in-state residents. In-state admissions have fallen at highly competitive schools like UCLA not because out-of-state students are taking up more of a set number of spots, but because the amount of in-state students whose educations the UC can afford to subsidize has fallen because of decreasing state funding per student. Declining admit rates of in-state students is a problem, but out-of-state students are part of the solution. I really, really hope this proposal doesn't get passed.

swuecho 10y ago
A lot people currently think it is a good investment to go UC for such amount of money. But the reality might be otherwise. Few years later, UC might find it is hard to attract enough out-states students. so I do not think the limit matters.
imjustsaying 10y ago
>decreasing state funding per student. I don't get this. Not only can a person who has pauper parents afford tuition + cash left over to pay the rent at any state school in the nation due to Pell Grants and subsidized student loans, but in California you still get additional state grants on top of that. Not to mention all the other freebies that California dumps on its residents. If you mean to say that kids aren't going to college because they can't afford it, I don't buy it for one second. That is unless the student's parents have a job that gives a middle class income, disqualifying the student from getting a Pell Grant, and not contributing towards the education costs. Is that what you're referring to?
- azernik 10y ago
  Decreasing state funding for student manifests itself in a lower quality of education; not that the student is unable to pay their tuition, but that the school is unable to hire enough professors.
  - imjustsaying 10y ago
    I'm going to need to see a source on that. The US has by far the most expensive education in the world yet doesn't come close to the highest scores of any metric other than self-confidence.
- me2i81 10y ago
  The maximum Pell grant plus the maximum Stafford loan will not even cover UC tuition, let alone housing or other expenses.
  - imjustsaying 10y ago
    >Tuition and fees* $13,500 http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/tuition-and-cost/ http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/tu... >$9,500 for freshmen, $12,500 for seniors https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsid... (subsidized here means super-subsidized, unsubsidized means less subsidized, as the government is still artificially restricting prices by guaranteeing the loan) >for 2016-2017, Cal Grants are up to $12,240 at a University of California campus Please correct me if the award isn't this high, I don't know anything about California grants. http://www.csac.ca.gov/doc.asp?id=905 http://www.csac.ca.gov/doc.asp?id=905 >Pell Grant: For the 2016–17 award year (July 1, 2016, to June 30, 2017), the maximum award is $5,815 https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/pell https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/pell Total .govbux: $27,555 Total tuition: $13,500 Twice as high lol
dvt 10y ago
Mass accepting out-of-state students is most certainly not a solution, it's a band-aid (not to mention it basically screws California taxpayers). The solution would be to just increase state funding AND cap out-of-state admit rates. It's very hard for Berkeley and UCLA to stay competitive with Stanford and Caltech (and the Ivy League) when their private counterparts not only offer better financial aid for at-need low-income students, but are also starting to be in the same ballpark for in-state middle-class students. Not only that, but the main idea behind the UC system is that it was intended for California students first. UCLA had over 100,000 applications last year, the most out of any other school, public or private. I am completely okay with declining out-of-state students in favor of comparable California students. It's just that to afford that, the UC system needs more money. Heck, I even think price gouging out-of-state applicants could work.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Frankly it's a travesty that the state is funding SF-LA high speed rail with questionable need and returns over its students.
- stale2002 10y ago
  "it basically screws California taxpayers" It does literally the opposite. Out of state people are a net money gain, not a net money loss. The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept.
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    Maybe. There is some upper-limit to the number of students the system can admit. Enrolling out-of-state students is a net gain if the they stay in California and are productive enough to outweigh the productivity of the in-state students they push out and the potentially lost productivity from those students' going to non-UC schools.
    - zodiac 10y ago
      How do out of state students "push out" in state students?
Paul-ish 10y ago
>Declining admit rates of in-state students is a problem, but out-of-state students are part of the solution. I really, really hope this proposal doesn't get passed. The same thing was happening at my state school when I was there. Out of state students seem like a bad solution. Are we going to end up in a system where everyone has to go "out of state" because their in state school is under funded? It is like a perverse instantiation of musical chairs, and it seems broken.
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  Well, _everybody_ can't, because the in-state students being displaced are those who can't afford in-state tuition (let alone the far, far higher out-of-state tuition).

by yaacov 10y ago

swuecho 10y ago

A lot people currently think it is a good investment to go UC for such amount of money. But the reality might be otherwise. Few years later, UC might find it is hard to attract enough out-states students. so I do not think the limit matters.

imjustsaying 10y ago

>decreasing state funding per student. I don't get this. Not only can a person who has pauper parents afford tuition + cash left over to pay the rent at any state school in the nation due to Pell Grants and subsidized student loans, but in California you still get additional state grants on top of that. Not to mention all the other freebies that California dumps on its residents. If you mean to say that kids aren't going to college because they can't afford it, I don't buy it for one second. That is unless the student's parents have a job that gives a middle class income, disqualifying the student from getting a Pell Grant, and not contributing towards the education costs. Is that what you're referring to?

azernik 10y ago
Decreasing state funding for student manifests itself in a lower quality of education; not that the student is unable to pay their tuition, but that the school is unable to hire enough professors.
- imjustsaying 10y ago
  I'm going to need to see a source on that. The US has by far the most expensive education in the world yet doesn't come close to the highest scores of any metric other than self-confidence.
me2i81 10y ago
The maximum Pell grant plus the maximum Stafford loan will not even cover UC tuition, let alone housing or other expenses.
- imjustsaying 10y ago
  >Tuition and fees* $13,500 http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/tuition-and-cost/ http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/tu... >$9,500 for freshmen, $12,500 for seniors https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsid... (subsidized here means super-subsidized, unsubsidized means less subsidized, as the government is still artificially restricting prices by guaranteeing the loan) >for 2016-2017, Cal Grants are up to $12,240 at a University of California campus Please correct me if the award isn't this high, I don't know anything about California grants. http://www.csac.ca.gov/doc.asp?id=905 http://www.csac.ca.gov/doc.asp?id=905 >Pell Grant: For the 2016–17 award year (July 1, 2016, to June 30, 2017), the maximum award is $5,815 https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/pell https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships/pell Total .govbux: $27,555 Total tuition: $13,500 Twice as high lol

dvt 10y ago

Mass accepting out-of-state students is most certainly not a solution, it's a band-aid (not to mention it basically screws California taxpayers). The solution would be to just increase state funding AND cap out-of-state admit rates. It's very hard for Berkeley and UCLA to stay competitive with Stanford and Caltech (and the Ivy League) when their private counterparts not only offer better financial aid for at-need low-income students, but are also starting to be in the same ballpark for in-state middle-class students. Not only that, but the main idea behind the UC system is that it was intended for California students first. UCLA had over 100,000 applications last year, the most out of any other school, public or private. I am completely okay with declining out-of-state students in favor of comparable California students. It's just that to afford that, the UC system needs more money. Heck, I even think price gouging out-of-state applicants could work.

hkmurakami 10y ago
Frankly it's a travesty that the state is funding SF-LA high speed rail with questionable need and returns over its students.
stale2002 10y ago
"it basically screws California taxpayers" It does literally the opposite. Out of state people are a net money gain, not a net money loss. The more out of state people you can, the more instate people you can afford to accept.
- __derek__ 10y ago
  Maybe. There is some upper-limit to the number of students the system can admit. Enrolling out-of-state students is a net gain if the they stay in California and are productive enough to outweigh the productivity of the in-state students they push out and the potentially lost productivity from those students' going to non-UC schools.
  - zodiac 10y ago
    How do out of state students "push out" in state students?

Paul-ish 10y ago

>Declining admit rates of in-state students is a problem, but out-of-state students are part of the solution. I really, really hope this proposal doesn't get passed. The same thing was happening at my state school when I was there. Out of state students seem like a bad solution. Are we going to end up in a system where everyone has to go "out of state" because their in state school is under funded? It is like a perverse instantiation of musical chairs, and it seems broken.

wutbrodo 10y ago
Well, _everybody_ can't, because the in-state students being displaced are those who can't afford in-state tuition (let alone the far, far higher out-of-state tuition).