5 ms·

Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts. Thats where this "fake" news story should end. This is not a political problem, its a societal one, a

Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts. Thats where this "fake" news story should end. This is not a political problem, its a societal one, and you are barking up the wrong tree. Wikipedia is a free online encyclopedia, created and edited by volunteers around the world. It is not authoritative, and anyone who treats it as such, should be educated to the facts of what it is, and is not. Just because its moderated to be supported by links to facts, doesn't mean that every bit of content is free of bias and the whole truth. Its generally accepted that this is the case. Same thing goes for Snopes, and some other fact checking sites. They are generally looked to for a reasonable amount of truthfulness based on reputation. Same could be said for various media outlets, based on your preference and bias. Social media sites and search engines are not responsible to tailor their content to fit your expectations of what truth or reality are. Stop being a child. "but, people expect to be able to Google something and results and snippets be the truth!" Well, thats a problem for sure. How about we try and fix that expectation instead? Feel free to teach your children and anyone you know who uses the internet, that (surprisingly) anyone from anywhere can still get online and post anything at any time, and you should fact check multiple places and resources instead of trusting the first result from your favorite search engine. "but by offering snippets of results from programmatically generated search results (which is super handy 99% of the time) Google is publishing false truths!" Right, and you can probably still Google bomb the image search to show an image you want based on a certain search term, its the internet not your personal fact butler, no matter how its advertised. Its 2017 and common sense and intelligence are still recommended for most tasks.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pm24601 10y ago
Google is presenting the fake content as factual. Google is asserting the truth and putting its own brand behind the "truthiness" of the fake page. That is the line that has been crossed.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  No, they aren't. They are extracting a quote from a source that seems directly related to what you search for. The only difference between this and a regular search result is that it comes in a grey box, and the text is extracted via deep learning rather than pulling the first sentence or some html metatags. Interpreting a grey box as "truth" is entirely on you.
  - peeters 10y ago
    The problem is that it uses largely the same treatment as it does for actual facts. In other words, I don't think there's anything wrong with trusting Google when you search for "25 divided by 5", "33rd president of the US", etc. But when Google extends that response structure to things that, on further research, are not established fact, it shares some blame in spreading false knowledge.
    - benmcnelly 10y ago
      Thats a stretch and you know it. Your comment shares some blame in spreading false knowledge yet you don't see me clamoring for HN to moderate their comments for truthfulness. And no its not different, maybe I am not Internet savvy and believe the top rated comment on HN as the most informed opinion and take it as fact instead of researching something for myself. To be clear, just because Google has some helpful widgets and search helpers built in does not mean it asserts its search results as facts or even the best result. Google is trying to get you the best answers it can, and makes no claim otherwise. edit: I stand corrected, I had no idea about the Google TOS here that admits they are committed to only returning search results that are factual, and to that end factual to you specifically: https://google.com/things-that-are-not-there/ https://google.com/things-that-are-not-there/
peeters 10y ago
> Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts. How can you justify that claim? It seems pretty obvious to me that it's trying to be both. Search for "current time utc" and tell me Google is just a search engine for finding webpages.
- ygaf 10y ago
  I admittedly do that - every now and then typing 'time' into google, knowing it goes beyond being a search engine. I also sometimes put in e.g. 'starbucks' and I don't have to qualify the search any further, google knows I want open-close times. However these snippet boxes, to the computer-savvy at least, are clearly just another automated search result.
  - benmcnelly 10y ago
    And that is the real issue. I am as to blame as anyone. Whenever a friend or family member needs a computer fixed, or computing thing explained, I have been there to do it for them. We live in a more connected world, full of non-savvy users.
- fudged71 10y ago
  Right, google created what they call the "Knowledge Graph", which is explicitly meant for facts.
  - benmcnelly 10y ago
    They have been pretty clear about their goal to have search respond to you as humanly as possible and use AI not just algorithms to find things for you, and I think they have been clear on where they are getting the data they dig up on things.
- imh 10y ago
  it's not just "current time" you can ask "(12+431)/42" or "how tall is a poodle" or "when does san francisco city hall close today" or "directions to nearest gas station." These are each totally different kinds of facts (compute something for me; answer a general question; tell me something specific and context/time dependent; give me directions to something context dependent). Google is way beyond just providing a list of web pages and can't have it both ways. The general question-answer factual stuff is leaking in to user expectations in the rest of their search business.
ygaf 10y ago
Thank you. Like me you probably read the article and wondered why blame for the incident instantly bypassed the kid with the phone. (before someone replies, I know that educating the whole media-consuming public is easier said than done.)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pm24601 10y ago

Google is presenting the fake content as factual. Google is asserting the truth and putting its own brand behind the "truthiness" of the fake page. That is the line that has been crossed.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
No, they aren't. They are extracting a quote from a source that seems directly related to what you search for. The only difference between this and a regular search result is that it comes in a grey box, and the text is extracted via deep learning rather than pulling the first sentence or some html metatags. Interpreting a grey box as "truth" is entirely on you.
- peeters 10y ago
  The problem is that it uses largely the same treatment as it does for actual facts. In other words, I don't think there's anything wrong with trusting Google when you search for "25 divided by 5", "33rd president of the US", etc. But when Google extends that response structure to things that, on further research, are not established fact, it shares some blame in spreading false knowledge.
  - benmcnelly 10y ago
    Thats a stretch and you know it. Your comment shares some blame in spreading false knowledge yet you don't see me clamoring for HN to moderate their comments for truthfulness. And no its not different, maybe I am not Internet savvy and believe the top rated comment on HN as the most informed opinion and take it as fact instead of researching something for myself. To be clear, just because Google has some helpful widgets and search helpers built in does not mean it asserts its search results as facts or even the best result. Google is trying to get you the best answers it can, and makes no claim otherwise. edit: I stand corrected, I had no idea about the Google TOS here that admits they are committed to only returning search results that are factual, and to that end factual to you specifically: https://google.com/things-that-are-not-there/ https://google.com/things-that-are-not-there/

peeters 10y ago

> Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts. How can you justify that claim? It seems pretty obvious to me that it's trying to be both. Search for "current time utc" and tell me Google is just a search engine for finding webpages.

ygaf 10y ago
I admittedly do that - every now and then typing 'time' into google, knowing it goes beyond being a search engine. I also sometimes put in e.g. 'starbucks' and I don't have to qualify the search any further, google knows I want open-close times. However these snippet boxes, to the computer-savvy at least, are clearly just another automated search result.
- benmcnelly 10y ago
  And that is the real issue. I am as to blame as anyone. Whenever a friend or family member needs a computer fixed, or computing thing explained, I have been there to do it for them. We live in a more connected world, full of non-savvy users.
fudged71 10y ago
Right, google created what they call the "Knowledge Graph", which is explicitly meant for facts.
- benmcnelly 10y ago
  They have been pretty clear about their goal to have search respond to you as humanly as possible and use AI not just algorithms to find things for you, and I think they have been clear on where they are getting the data they dig up on things.
imh 10y ago
it's not just "current time" you can ask "(12+431)/42" or "how tall is a poodle" or "when does san francisco city hall close today" or "directions to nearest gas station." These are each totally different kinds of facts (compute something for me; answer a general question; tell me something specific and context/time dependent; give me directions to something context dependent). Google is way beyond just providing a list of web pages and can't have it both ways. The general question-answer factual stuff is leaking in to user expectations in the rest of their search business.

ygaf 10y ago

Thank you. Like me you probably read the article and wondered why blame for the incident instantly bypassed the kid with the phone. (before someone replies, I know that educating the whole media-consuming public is easier said than done.)