19 ms·

I have tried Hydrogen some time ago when I tried to build a linux audio workstation with Jack and Ardour. As much as it pains me to say this, don't expect it t

I have tried Hydrogen some time ago when I tried to build a linux audio workstation with Jack and Ardour. As much as it pains me to say this, don't expect it to be even remotely as good as commercial software drum machines like EZDrummer, Superior Drummer or Studio Drummer in terms of sample quality or usability. Generally, I found it prohibitively complicated to set up a well-working low-latency audio workstation, even though I had one of the few soundcards that had drivers for Linux (Edirol FA-101). EDIT: That was like 5 years ago, maybe the audio landscape has changed until then. 2017, year of the Linux Audio Workstation! 2nd EDIT: Today I use Reaper on Windows. Reaper is amazing and the only reason I have Windows installed on my private computers. It is to audio editing and recording what Sublime Text is to text editing: slick, fast, inexpensive, easy to install, easy to use.

zevv 10y ago
For me a huge change the past years was the coming of Bitwig Studio audio workstation to Linux. Commercial software, but rock solid and high quality.
- flavor8 10y ago
  Do you have to jump through Jack shenanigans to get it working? Or does it just work, nicely?
  - baldfat 10y ago
    I don't care what OS your on. When you start talking about latency it is all a nightmare. If latency isn't an issue then Pulse Audio works totally fine. I actually like Jack when it is concerning latency and think it is a good system. BUT it is a pain. I used 2 separate sound cards. One is a Pro level I/O breakout box that Jack controls and the on board sound card is controlled by PulseAudio.
    - tjr225 10y ago
      I have no issues with latency on MacOS with absolutely zero configuration. It's one of the reasons I won't switch from MacOS to linux.
      - squeaky-clean 10y ago
        Likewise, none of my audio devices have required special drivers for Mac, and I can easily get 3ms latency by just plugging it in and making sure buffer size it at a minimum. I produced on Windows forever and didn't believe there would have been a noticeable difference switching to OSX.
        baldfat 10y ago
        I have never in my life seen a Mac out perform a Window machine when it comes to latency and professional audio recording. When it comes to $100-$200 parts it comes to drivers and sometimes Mac wins and sometimes Windows wins. I have a bias that goes beyond Pro-Tools but Pro-Tools was a thing because Apple hardware was not capable of producing Professional level recording without spending thousands of dollars in their proprietary hardware. Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue and both platforms require a lot of end user work to get lower and lower latency. The issue is really only significant for recording audio and not as much when doing live audio. Any modern platforms latency light years ahead of 2000 audio production. The idea that Mac is better for audio or video because of the OS is marketing and not based on real life professional use of the platforms.
        eropple 10y ago
        > Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue Core Audio literally-just-works with low latency and aggregated devices. DAWs on Windows still either use MME/DX for north of 50ms, often 100ms+ latency or ASIO (exclusive device usage and no aggregation, assuming your hardware even has ASIO drivers because ASIO4ALL is at best rickety) on Windows. I don't know what you think is going on with OS X, but I suggest re-evaluating your assumptions.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - thecrumb 10y ago
    On Linux Mint - install, configure your inputs, select your soundcard/device, done. It will work fine with Alsa. It will also support JACK but for quickly getting up and running it's about the simplest DAW I've setup on Linux configuration wise. Not open source but I give them lots of kudos for supporting Linux from the start.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sowbug 10y ago
  Slightly off-topic, but does Bitwig have a restrictive licensing scheme that makes reinstallation cumbersome? I love FL Studio because it doesn't have a limit on number of installations. As a geek, I change my main machine often, and it's so convenient to install FL Studio if I get an itch to bang something out, and not to worry about how many activations I've used up. Ableton is a turn-off for this reason. They're actually pretty cool about adding activations if you let them know you're moving machines, but it offends me to ask permission to use something I've already paid for. If Bitwig (1) works well on Linux, (2) works well as a DAW, and (3) doesn't dick around with activation rules, then I'd be delighted both to support them and to switch my (current) hobby workstation from Windows to Linux.
  - shermanyo 10y ago
    There are restrictions, but they're quite flexible. I have a main PC and a couple laptops I switch between, and have no issues. You can activate 2 systems permanently, which is managed simply from the web UI. (revoke activations) Other systems can be activated temporarily with your email/id + pass on startup. FWIW, the small team has been fantastic and responsive since the beginning. (I've been on the betas and helped develop some of the early controller scripts. check the community pages to see what we've done) I got a NFR license for helping out early on, and ran into the activation limit initially. (testing on all platforms, etc...) I emailed them a few times to deactivate my current systems initially, then they added the option to their account management page. If its a deal breaker, I suggest emailing them and seeing what they say. It wouldn't surprise me if they upped the limit or did something to help you out. They're an awesome group who really want to work with the community and users. Not affiliated besides what I mentioned above, just a happy user. Best of luck, if you have any questions PM me or reply here if you think relevant to others :)
    - sowbug 10y ago
      Thanks for the comprehensive reply. The self-service activation manager sounds like a step up from Ableton. Still not as great as FL Studio's free-wheelin' attitude, but better.
dmix 10y ago
I haven't used Hydrogen yet but it seems to be much more than just a drum synth/simulator, such as the ones you referenced as comparison (Studio Drummer, EZDrummer, etc). Drum machines can mix and compose a variety to samples and synth sounds, these samples can be drum kit sounds but it's not necessary. So you likely only sampled a limited portion of the functionality. You could also always purchase high quality drum samples and use it with this OSS programs if the built in library sucks. From experience, you could accomplish quite a bit with relatively simple drum machines. The synth products on the other hand were the thing that was complex and needs to be high quality. Which is likely what you were looking for a drum simulation.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
baldfat 10y ago
EZDrummer, and the other examples are a different beast. Those are sample based drum plugins. They are made to sound like real acoustic drums. They are great and wonderful. This is a pastern based drum machine for non-acoustic sounding drums (Usually). So you are comparing two different tools.
- squarefoot 10y ago
  EZDrummer actually is a pattern+sample based drum machine like Hydrogen, while Studio Drummer uses pre-recorded audio patterns which could be wonderful to listen to but are very limiting in my opinion, even if played by world class drummers. > This is a pastern based drum machine for non-acoustic sounding drums (Usually). The only difference is the set of samples used. Hydrogens sample section, like soft-ROMplers such as NI Battery, has a multi layering method of arranging samples for each instruments according to the played velocity. Actually it offers even more layers than Battery so with the right set of samples it could even sound more realistic. The only problem is the lack of free real sounding acoustic drum samples as most people don't want to use them in favor of distorted sounds with ton of effects. This is so wrong; a decent sound engineer can get the "industrial" sound out of a jazz acoustic set, but no mixing console god in the world can do the other way around. Never ever ever ever sample drums with effects, always record the samples dry and add effects afterwards when needed.
diminish 10y ago
>> ..only reason I have Windows installed on my private computer When you say Reaper, you lose me. I have used it for a long time and it's really the most basic of all the DAW alternatives.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cdawzrd 10y ago
  Having used both REAPER and Pro Tools professionally, my opinion is that REAPER is not basic at all -- it has every feature I have needed in a DAW, it's easy to use (for me, at least) and performs better than Pro Tools, at a far lower cost. It is one of my favorite pieces of commercial software.
  - diminish 10y ago
    Cost is low but 3rd party ecosystem including plugins is weak. It s like notepad++ of programming editors or winamp of music players. Effective, cheap, non innovative Yet OK.
    - sean_appleby 10y ago
      I've only used Ableton, FL and Reason, so there could be something I'm missing, but doesn't Reaper support vsts? How could the ecosystem for plugins possibly be weak?
      - eon1 10y ago
        VST/3/AU/DX, and it supports scripting your own in JS as well. Unless they're upset about not having LADSPA or Nyquist, I can't imagine what else they'd be referring to that isn't proprietary AVID garbage.
- squeaky-clean 10y ago
  > I have used it for a long time and it's really the most basic of all the DAW alternatives. You clearly haven't. The only possible way there's a shred of truth to this sentence is if you're referring to the included sample-sets/virtual instruments compared to other DAWs, which Reaper doesn't include many of.
Pxtl 10y ago
After hearing some oldschool electronica my 9-year old asked me about drum machines. Is there a good kid-friendly one you can recommend for win or android?
- squeaky-clean 10y ago
  How about one in the browser? There are a lot out there, this is just the first one that came up in Google. http://www.html5drummachine.com/ http://www.html5drummachine.com/
- thom_nic 10y ago
  I played with this one a bit and enjoyed it, as a novice: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mikrosonic.RD3 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mikrosonic... I also got G-Stomper during an Amazon sale although I haven't really played with it at all. If you search the app store for "808" you'll find a lot of apps. The benefit is the original "real" 808 was relatively simple to use.
- tofflos 10y ago
  Try Figure (originally by Propellerhead). It's not strictly a drum machine but it's fun to explore both from a musical and an user-interface aspect. Available for iOS and Windows.
- bane 10y ago
  Caustic is great, a full DAW, cheap iOS, Android, windows (free), macos(free).
- djaychela 10y ago
  This is a browser-based drum machine with two TB-303-like units: http://errozero.co.uk/acid-machine/ http://errozero.co.uk/acid-machine/ Complete with HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004621
- redacted 10y ago
  Check out the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operators [0], so much fun to play with. I enjoy messing around with chiptunes on my PO-20 Arcade far more than I ever did in software. The PO-12 [1] and PO-32 [2] (if you can find one) are the two drum machines in that line up. [0] https://teenage.engineering/products/po https://teenage.engineering/products/po [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzEvGGINE20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzEvGGINE20 (this guy has videos for most of the PO series) [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMk8x9fsUQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMk8x9fsUQE
n00b101 10y ago
> I found it prohibitively complicated to set up a well-working low-latency audio workstation, even though I had one of the few soundcards that had drivers for Linux (Edirol FA-101). I don't know anything about your area, but it sounds like a pre-built Linux image with realtime kernel and maybe some custom driver setup would be useful here. I use LinuxCNC [1] and they provide a super-convenient Linux image that take only a few minutes to get setup and controlling real CNC machines / robots. [1] http://linuxcnc.org/ http://linuxcnc.org/
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  There are a number of these targeted at Linux audio production: http://linux-sound.org/distro.html http://linux-sound.org/distro.html
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  In fact, any modern PREEMPT enabled Linux can do realtime audio if you enable threadirqs=1 option, as I found out.

zevv 10y ago

For me a huge change the past years was the coming of Bitwig Studio audio workstation to Linux. Commercial software, but rock solid and high quality.

flavor8 10y ago
Do you have to jump through Jack shenanigans to get it working? Or does it just work, nicely?
- baldfat 10y ago
  I don't care what OS your on. When you start talking about latency it is all a nightmare. If latency isn't an issue then Pulse Audio works totally fine. I actually like Jack when it is concerning latency and think it is a good system. BUT it is a pain. I used 2 separate sound cards. One is a Pro level I/O breakout box that Jack controls and the on board sound card is controlled by PulseAudio.
  - tjr225 10y ago
    I have no issues with latency on MacOS with absolutely zero configuration. It's one of the reasons I won't switch from MacOS to linux.
    - squeaky-clean 10y ago
      Likewise, none of my audio devices have required special drivers for Mac, and I can easily get 3ms latency by just plugging it in and making sure buffer size it at a minimum. I produced on Windows forever and didn't believe there would have been a noticeable difference switching to OSX.
      - baldfat 10y ago
        I have never in my life seen a Mac out perform a Window machine when it comes to latency and professional audio recording. When it comes to $100-$200 parts it comes to drivers and sometimes Mac wins and sometimes Windows wins. I have a bias that goes beyond Pro-Tools but Pro-Tools was a thing because Apple hardware was not capable of producing Professional level recording without spending thousands of dollars in their proprietary hardware. Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue and both platforms require a lot of end user work to get lower and lower latency. The issue is really only significant for recording audio and not as much when doing live audio. Any modern platforms latency light years ahead of 2000 audio production. The idea that Mac is better for audio or video because of the OS is marketing and not based on real life professional use of the platforms.
        eropple 10y ago
        > Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue Core Audio literally-just-works with low latency and aggregated devices. DAWs on Windows still either use MME/DX for north of 50ms, often 100ms+ latency or ASIO (exclusive device usage and no aggregation, assuming your hardware even has ASIO drivers because ASIO4ALL is at best rickety) on Windows. I don't know what you think is going on with OS X, but I suggest re-evaluating your assumptions.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- thecrumb 10y ago
  On Linux Mint - install, configure your inputs, select your soundcard/device, done. It will work fine with Alsa. It will also support JACK but for quickly getting up and running it's about the simplest DAW I've setup on Linux configuration wise. Not open source but I give them lots of kudos for supporting Linux from the start.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sowbug 10y ago
Slightly off-topic, but does Bitwig have a restrictive licensing scheme that makes reinstallation cumbersome? I love FL Studio because it doesn't have a limit on number of installations. As a geek, I change my main machine often, and it's so convenient to install FL Studio if I get an itch to bang something out, and not to worry about how many activations I've used up. Ableton is a turn-off for this reason. They're actually pretty cool about adding activations if you let them know you're moving machines, but it offends me to ask permission to use something I've already paid for. If Bitwig (1) works well on Linux, (2) works well as a DAW, and (3) doesn't dick around with activation rules, then I'd be delighted both to support them and to switch my (current) hobby workstation from Windows to Linux.
- shermanyo 10y ago
  There are restrictions, but they're quite flexible. I have a main PC and a couple laptops I switch between, and have no issues. You can activate 2 systems permanently, which is managed simply from the web UI. (revoke activations) Other systems can be activated temporarily with your email/id + pass on startup. FWIW, the small team has been fantastic and responsive since the beginning. (I've been on the betas and helped develop some of the early controller scripts. check the community pages to see what we've done) I got a NFR license for helping out early on, and ran into the activation limit initially. (testing on all platforms, etc...) I emailed them a few times to deactivate my current systems initially, then they added the option to their account management page. If its a deal breaker, I suggest emailing them and seeing what they say. It wouldn't surprise me if they upped the limit or did something to help you out. They're an awesome group who really want to work with the community and users. Not affiliated besides what I mentioned above, just a happy user. Best of luck, if you have any questions PM me or reply here if you think relevant to others :)
  - sowbug 10y ago
    Thanks for the comprehensive reply. The self-service activation manager sounds like a step up from Ableton. Still not as great as FL Studio's free-wheelin' attitude, but better.

dmix 10y ago

I haven't used Hydrogen yet but it seems to be much more than just a drum synth/simulator, such as the ones you referenced as comparison (Studio Drummer, EZDrummer, etc). Drum machines can mix and compose a variety to samples and synth sounds, these samples can be drum kit sounds but it's not necessary. So you likely only sampled a limited portion of the functionality. You could also always purchase high quality drum samples and use it with this OSS programs if the built in library sucks. From experience, you could accomplish quite a bit with relatively simple drum machines. The synth products on the other hand were the thing that was complex and needs to be high quality. Which is likely what you were looking for a drum simulation.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

baldfat 10y ago

EZDrummer, and the other examples are a different beast. Those are sample based drum plugins. They are made to sound like real acoustic drums. They are great and wonderful. This is a pastern based drum machine for non-acoustic sounding drums (Usually). So you are comparing two different tools.

squarefoot 10y ago
EZDrummer actually is a pattern+sample based drum machine like Hydrogen, while Studio Drummer uses pre-recorded audio patterns which could be wonderful to listen to but are very limiting in my opinion, even if played by world class drummers. > This is a pastern based drum machine for non-acoustic sounding drums (Usually). The only difference is the set of samples used. Hydrogens sample section, like soft-ROMplers such as NI Battery, has a multi layering method of arranging samples for each instruments according to the played velocity. Actually it offers even more layers than Battery so with the right set of samples it could even sound more realistic. The only problem is the lack of free real sounding acoustic drum samples as most people don't want to use them in favor of distorted sounds with ton of effects. This is so wrong; a decent sound engineer can get the "industrial" sound out of a jazz acoustic set, but no mixing console god in the world can do the other way around. Never ever ever ever sample drums with effects, always record the samples dry and add effects afterwards when needed.

diminish 10y ago

>> ..only reason I have Windows installed on my private computer When you say Reaper, you lose me. I have used it for a long time and it's really the most basic of all the DAW alternatives.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cdawzrd 10y ago
Having used both REAPER and Pro Tools professionally, my opinion is that REAPER is not basic at all -- it has every feature I have needed in a DAW, it's easy to use (for me, at least) and performs better than Pro Tools, at a far lower cost. It is one of my favorite pieces of commercial software.
- diminish 10y ago
  Cost is low but 3rd party ecosystem including plugins is weak. It s like notepad++ of programming editors or winamp of music players. Effective, cheap, non innovative Yet OK.
  - sean_appleby 10y ago
    I've only used Ableton, FL and Reason, so there could be something I'm missing, but doesn't Reaper support vsts? How could the ecosystem for plugins possibly be weak?
    - eon1 10y ago
      VST/3/AU/DX, and it supports scripting your own in JS as well. Unless they're upset about not having LADSPA or Nyquist, I can't imagine what else they'd be referring to that isn't proprietary AVID garbage.
squeaky-clean 10y ago
> I have used it for a long time and it's really the most basic of all the DAW alternatives. You clearly haven't. The only possible way there's a shred of truth to this sentence is if you're referring to the included sample-sets/virtual instruments compared to other DAWs, which Reaper doesn't include many of.

Pxtl 10y ago

After hearing some oldschool electronica my 9-year old asked me about drum machines. Is there a good kid-friendly one you can recommend for win or android?

squeaky-clean 10y ago
How about one in the browser? There are a lot out there, this is just the first one that came up in Google. http://www.html5drummachine.com/ http://www.html5drummachine.com/
thom_nic 10y ago
I played with this one a bit and enjoyed it, as a novice: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mikrosonic.RD3 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mikrosonic... I also got G-Stomper during an Amazon sale although I haven't really played with it at all. If you search the app store for "808" you'll find a lot of apps. The benefit is the original "real" 808 was relatively simple to use.
tofflos 10y ago
Try Figure (originally by Propellerhead). It's not strictly a drum machine but it's fun to explore both from a musical and an user-interface aspect. Available for iOS and Windows.
bane 10y ago
Caustic is great, a full DAW, cheap iOS, Android, windows (free), macos(free).
djaychela 10y ago
This is a browser-based drum machine with two TB-303-like units: http://errozero.co.uk/acid-machine/ http://errozero.co.uk/acid-machine/ Complete with HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004621
redacted 10y ago
Check out the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operators [0], so much fun to play with. I enjoy messing around with chiptunes on my PO-20 Arcade far more than I ever did in software. The PO-12 [1] and PO-32 [2] (if you can find one) are the two drum machines in that line up. [0] https://teenage.engineering/products/po https://teenage.engineering/products/po [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzEvGGINE20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzEvGGINE20 (this guy has videos for most of the PO series) [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMk8x9fsUQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMk8x9fsUQE

n00b101 10y ago

> I found it prohibitively complicated to set up a well-working low-latency audio workstation, even though I had one of the few soundcards that had drivers for Linux (Edirol FA-101). I don't know anything about your area, but it sounds like a pre-built Linux image with realtime kernel and maybe some custom driver setup would be useful here. I use LinuxCNC [1] and they provide a super-convenient Linux image that take only a few minutes to get setup and controlling real CNC machines / robots. [1] http://linuxcnc.org/ http://linuxcnc.org/

ghostly_s 10y ago
There are a number of these targeted at Linux audio production: http://linux-sound.org/distro.html http://linux-sound.org/distro.html
AstralStorm 10y ago
In fact, any modern PREEMPT enabled Linux can do realtime audio if you enable threadirqs=1 option, as I found out.