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> unless CPU speeds start doubling again, we're never going to be able to even semi-accurately emulate anything past the Xbox 360/PS3 generation Luckily all th

> unless CPU speeds start doubling again, we're never going to be able to even semi-accurately emulate anything past the Xbox 360/PS3 generation Luckily all the new consoles use x86_64 processors for their main processors, so no low level emulation will be required.

WaxProlix 10y ago
Is that true? The prospect of emulating a console on similar-gen PC hardware is super appetizing, but this is the first I've heard of the possibility.
- izacus 10y ago
  While the CPU is indeed x86-64, the architecture of the SoC and the device is rather different so emulation still won't be all that easy. This 33c3 talk gives a lot of fascinating information on how PS4 differs from your run-of-the-mill PC and what kind of issues they hit when trying to run Linux on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMiubC6LdTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMiubC6LdTA
- Sanddancer 10y ago
  Yep. Both the PS4 and XBox One are using semi-custom AMD chips with 8-core CPUs and 1152 shader GPUs. So managably beefy.
  - throwawayish 10y ago
    The CPU isn't actually very powerful, they use low-power Jaguar cores at 1.6 GHz or so.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    The XB1 has only 768 GCN cores (12 compute units of 64 cores, versus 18 for the PS4), but both CPU and GPU cores are clocked slightly higher than the PS4 (1.75GHz v 1.6 for the CPU, 853MHz v 800 for the GPU). The PS4P increases everything except the CPU cores count: CPU clock to 2.1GHz, compute units to 36 (hence 2304 cores) and GCN frequency to 911MHz.
- grumbel 10y ago
  It's really hard to predict that stuff. People thought original Xbox emulation would be easy, since it was "essentially a PC", but it's the only console of that generation that still doesn't have a good emulator. Meanwhile WiiU emulation is already advanced enough that it can almost play the just released Zelda:BotW. Technology aside, it's also a matter of interest. Many XboxOne and PS4 games already have PC ports, so there is less need and interest to create emulators. Nintendo consoles on the other side have many exclusives, so interest in emulating them seems to be higher. Only time will tell.
  - ashark 10y ago
    > It's really hard to predict that stuff. People thought original Xbox emulation would be easy, since it was "essentially a PC", but it's the only console of that generation that still doesn't have a good emulator. Probably a matter of demand, too, since it's got very few decent games that aren't 1) available on another console, or 2) available as an (often superior) PC port
4ndr3vv 10y ago
You'll just need to somehow emulate the closed down servers that run the now defunct game worlds...
Asooka 10y ago
Oh yeah, having an x86 CPU makes it super easy to emulate - just look at how good the original XBox emulators are. That was sarcasm. There are no good XBox 1 emulators because the GPU is a custom, undocumented chip by nVidia and nobody has sat down to reverse engineer it. I predict that similar custom hardware parts will make it very hard to accurately emulate PS4 and XBone games. Then again, I feel like there are a lot less console exclusives nowadays, so we might not lose out on too much after the systems' deaths. And in the end, it's just games - people will always keep making more. It's sort of a philosophical point, but I feel that letting some art disappear completely, so people can re-discover and re-make it as new isn't really a bad thing.
- amyjess 10y ago
  I'd argue that the real reason there are no XBox emulators is because nobody with the requisite skills cares enough to bother to reverse-engineer it and write an emulator. Since there are very few exclusives, there's little demand for it to be emulated in the first place. And from what I understand, the XBox isn't fondly-remembered by geeks. The XBox was the console of choice for people who liked to make fun of geeks and nerds, and as such most people who have the skills and the desire to write emulators (i.e. geeks and nerds) have a pretty strong aversion to the XBox. That the most popular games for the XBox weren't the kind of games that were enjoyed by nerds doesn't help, either. There's very little overlap between emulator programmers and people who care about the original Halo or old Madden games.

WaxProlix 10y ago

Is that true? The prospect of emulating a console on similar-gen PC hardware is super appetizing, but this is the first I've heard of the possibility.

izacus 10y ago
While the CPU is indeed x86-64, the architecture of the SoC and the device is rather different so emulation still won't be all that easy. This 33c3 talk gives a lot of fascinating information on how PS4 differs from your run-of-the-mill PC and what kind of issues they hit when trying to run Linux on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMiubC6LdTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMiubC6LdTA
Sanddancer 10y ago
Yep. Both the PS4 and XBox One are using semi-custom AMD chips with 8-core CPUs and 1152 shader GPUs. So managably beefy.
- throwawayish 10y ago
  The CPU isn't actually very powerful, they use low-power Jaguar cores at 1.6 GHz or so.
- masklinn 10y ago
  The XB1 has only 768 GCN cores (12 compute units of 64 cores, versus 18 for the PS4), but both CPU and GPU cores are clocked slightly higher than the PS4 (1.75GHz v 1.6 for the CPU, 853MHz v 800 for the GPU). The PS4P increases everything except the CPU cores count: CPU clock to 2.1GHz, compute units to 36 (hence 2304 cores) and GCN frequency to 911MHz.
grumbel 10y ago
It's really hard to predict that stuff. People thought original Xbox emulation would be easy, since it was "essentially a PC", but it's the only console of that generation that still doesn't have a good emulator. Meanwhile WiiU emulation is already advanced enough that it can almost play the just released Zelda:BotW. Technology aside, it's also a matter of interest. Many XboxOne and PS4 games already have PC ports, so there is less need and interest to create emulators. Nintendo consoles on the other side have many exclusives, so interest in emulating them seems to be higher. Only time will tell.
- ashark 10y ago
  > It's really hard to predict that stuff. People thought original Xbox emulation would be easy, since it was "essentially a PC", but it's the only console of that generation that still doesn't have a good emulator. Probably a matter of demand, too, since it's got very few decent games that aren't 1) available on another console, or 2) available as an (often superior) PC port

4ndr3vv 10y ago

You'll just need to somehow emulate the closed down servers that run the now defunct game worlds...

Asooka 10y ago

Oh yeah, having an x86 CPU makes it super easy to emulate - just look at how good the original XBox emulators are. That was sarcasm. There are no good XBox 1 emulators because the GPU is a custom, undocumented chip by nVidia and nobody has sat down to reverse engineer it. I predict that similar custom hardware parts will make it very hard to accurately emulate PS4 and XBone games. Then again, I feel like there are a lot less console exclusives nowadays, so we might not lose out on too much after the systems' deaths. And in the end, it's just games - people will always keep making more. It's sort of a philosophical point, but I feel that letting some art disappear completely, so people can re-discover and re-make it as new isn't really a bad thing.

amyjess 10y ago
I'd argue that the real reason there are no XBox emulators is because nobody with the requisite skills cares enough to bother to reverse-engineer it and write an emulator. Since there are very few exclusives, there's little demand for it to be emulated in the first place. And from what I understand, the XBox isn't fondly-remembered by geeks. The XBox was the console of choice for people who liked to make fun of geeks and nerds, and as such most people who have the skills and the desire to write emulators (i.e. geeks and nerds) have a pretty strong aversion to the XBox. That the most popular games for the XBox weren't the kind of games that were enjoyed by nerds doesn't help, either. There's very little overlap between emulator programmers and people who care about the original Halo or old Madden games.