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Cooking for the Pope

64 points by Thevet 10y ago

Mikeb85 10y ago
Good article. Shame he isn't necessarily considered to be part of the 'canon' of historical cooks and mentioned in the same way as Carème, Escoffier, La Varanne or even Taillevent. I also love how elaborately seasoned dishes were from that time period. A lot of people view cuisine as something static, and they see French, Italian, Russian cuisine as something frozen in time, with only 'indigenous' ingredients. Never mind the fact that all these cuisines retain ingredients from the new world, the silk road, and techniques from abroad. It's also an interesting historical anecdote about the excesses of the Catholic Church during that period.
- clock_tower 10y ago
  > It's also an interesting historical anecdote about the excesses of the Catholic Church during that period. The author's perspective on those excesses baffles me. In any other context, seen from a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or atheist perspective, the Renaissance Papacy was obviously in the wrong; but now we're supposed to cheer for them because they funded art and cookery?
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
    Nothing I see in the article is cheering on the papacy, but rather the genius of a chef who happened to have the papacy as his patron.
    - clock_tower 10y ago
      When the article gushes with praise for the cooks and artists employed by the Renaissance Papacy, and condemns the Counter-Reformation Papacy for no longer making use of them -- using language like "a rare moment of jollity before the flogging of whores and adulterers began", "no pagan pleasures in the Vatican while the red slippers covered the toes of this pontiff", or "like asking Michelangelo to paint all four walls of the Sistine Chapel in a single coat of magnolia" -- it certainly sounds like praising the Renaissance Papacy to me.
- xutopia 10y ago
  I'm afraid historically speaking his contribution to the cooking field hasn't been that big of a deal. Which technique did he popularize? Which dish do we still eat today that were his invention? Carême was the first chef ever to pipe meringue. Escoffier created the brigade as we know it today. La Varenne introduced béchamel sauce, popularized (or some say invented the use of roux), first one to make use of what is called a "fond" (stock). Taillevent... well I think his contribution was accidental. His greatest work might not even be his. I question in all of this how important Scappi's contribution was. He served important people... meh...
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
    You mean they were the ones to codify these things. Stocks and sauces have existed ever since it was possible to create cookware that can simultaneously hold liquid and be heated, the 'brigade' is a basic concept of organisation of human labour, Escoffier just codified it, and milk based sauces, or sauces thickened with starch (often crushed bread or grains), go back a long, long time as well. I mean, I know the real reasons Carême and Escoffier are considered so important (they codified the canon of French cuisine which had its heyday in the generations after WWII and became global 'fine' cuisine), but that style of cuisine is on it's way out, even in places such as Paris. Nowadays global fusion is the standard cuisine, and brigades are getting smaller and less rigid due to economic circumstances. Anyhow, I came up through the industry in rigid brigades headed by a French chef. I know all the terms, techniques, etc... Nowadays though, a successful restaurant is just as likely to be headed by some hipster doing Chinese-Italian cuisine, with techniques that would make my old chefs cringe. But it doesn't matter. Tastes are becoming more cosmopolitan, and all that matters is what's on the plate nowadays. I just came back from a culinary tour of another city, visiting acquaintances in the industry, and the 'top' restaurants are all tiny, loud and have very eclectic menus. I personally think Scappi could be quite relevant in today's culinary atmosphere.
    - mrob 10y ago
      Bread sauce (still popular in British cuisine) has a very different texture to Béchamel sauce. And unlike bread sauce, making Béchamel sauce is not at all obvious. If you gave somebody who'd never heard of it some flour, butter and milk, and told them to combine them into a smooth sauce, they would probably fail. Béchamel sauce was a real innovation.
- michaelsbradley 10y ago
  > It's also an interesting historical anecdote about the excesses of the Catholic Church during that period. I wonder if Scappi ever crossed paths with Philip Neri[+], one of the most important and well-connected reformers in Rome, who lived during the same time period. [+] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Neri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Neri
mhink 10y ago
> Just as every Scappi banquet had jokes woven into each course, so the Opera contains one bitterly ironic gag: this gourmandizing epic was dedicated to Pius V, nemesis of the mouthwatering. With a sense of humor like that, it sounds like he'd get along just fine with most of the cooks I've met!
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  You need a sense of humour when your art is something that takes hours/days to prepare, and disappears in an instant.
harveywi 10y ago
I wonder if the Pope has any dietary restrictions or follows a program such as the Imperial Diet.
- astine 10y ago
  The modern Pope? No, nothing beyond what ordinary Catholics have to follow. He may self-impose fasting or abstinence but that's optional.
jamiethompson 10y ago
'Cooking for the Pope' would be an excellent name for a band.

64 points by Thevet 10y ago

Good article. Shame he isn't necessarily considered to be part of the 'canon' of historical cooks and mentioned in the same way as Carème, Escoffier, La Varanne or even Taillevent. I also love how elaborately seasoned dishes were from that time period. A lot of people view cuisine as something static, and they see French, Italian, Russian cuisine as something frozen in time, with only 'indigenous' ingredients. Never mind the fact that all these cuisines retain ingredients from the new world, the silk road, and techniques from abroad. It's also an interesting historical anecdote about the excesses of the Catholic Church during that period.

clock_tower 10y ago
> It's also an interesting historical anecdote about the excesses of the Catholic Church during that period. The author's perspective on those excesses baffles me. In any other context, seen from a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or atheist perspective, the Renaissance Papacy was obviously in the wrong; but now we're supposed to cheer for them because they funded art and cookery?
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  Nothing I see in the article is cheering on the papacy, but rather the genius of a chef who happened to have the papacy as his patron.
  - clock_tower 10y ago
    When the article gushes with praise for the cooks and artists employed by the Renaissance Papacy, and condemns the Counter-Reformation Papacy for no longer making use of them -- using language like "a rare moment of jollity before the flogging of whores and adulterers began", "no pagan pleasures in the Vatican while the red slippers covered the toes of this pontiff", or "like asking Michelangelo to paint all four walls of the Sistine Chapel in a single coat of magnolia" -- it certainly sounds like praising the Renaissance Papacy to me.
xutopia 10y ago
I'm afraid historically speaking his contribution to the cooking field hasn't been that big of a deal. Which technique did he popularize? Which dish do we still eat today that were his invention? Carême was the first chef ever to pipe meringue. Escoffier created the brigade as we know it today. La Varenne introduced béchamel sauce, popularized (or some say invented the use of roux), first one to make use of what is called a "fond" (stock). Taillevent... well I think his contribution was accidental. His greatest work might not even be his. I question in all of this how important Scappi's contribution was. He served important people... meh...
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  You mean they were the ones to codify these things. Stocks and sauces have existed ever since it was possible to create cookware that can simultaneously hold liquid and be heated, the 'brigade' is a basic concept of organisation of human labour, Escoffier just codified it, and milk based sauces, or sauces thickened with starch (often crushed bread or grains), go back a long, long time as well. I mean, I know the real reasons Carême and Escoffier are considered so important (they codified the canon of French cuisine which had its heyday in the generations after WWII and became global 'fine' cuisine), but that style of cuisine is on it's way out, even in places such as Paris. Nowadays global fusion is the standard cuisine, and brigades are getting smaller and less rigid due to economic circumstances. Anyhow, I came up through the industry in rigid brigades headed by a French chef. I know all the terms, techniques, etc... Nowadays though, a successful restaurant is just as likely to be headed by some hipster doing Chinese-Italian cuisine, with techniques that would make my old chefs cringe. But it doesn't matter. Tastes are becoming more cosmopolitan, and all that matters is what's on the plate nowadays. I just came back from a culinary tour of another city, visiting acquaintances in the industry, and the 'top' restaurants are all tiny, loud and have very eclectic menus. I personally think Scappi could be quite relevant in today's culinary atmosphere.
  - mrob 10y ago
    Bread sauce (still popular in British cuisine) has a very different texture to Béchamel sauce. And unlike bread sauce, making Béchamel sauce is not at all obvious. If you gave somebody who'd never heard of it some flour, butter and milk, and told them to combine them into a smooth sauce, they would probably fail. Béchamel sauce was a real innovation.
michaelsbradley 10y ago
> It's also an interesting historical anecdote about the excesses of the Catholic Church during that period. I wonder if Scappi ever crossed paths with Philip Neri[+], one of the most important and well-connected reformers in Rome, who lived during the same time period. [+] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Neri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Neri

mhink 10y ago

> Just as every Scappi banquet had jokes woven into each course, so the Opera contains one bitterly ironic gag: this gourmandizing epic was dedicated to Pius V, nemesis of the mouthwatering. With a sense of humor like that, it sounds like he'd get along just fine with most of the cooks I've met!

Mikeb85 10y ago
You need a sense of humour when your art is something that takes hours/days to prepare, and disappears in an instant.

harveywi 10y ago

I wonder if the Pope has any dietary restrictions or follows a program such as the Imperial Diet.

astine 10y ago
The modern Pope? No, nothing beyond what ordinary Catholics have to follow. He may self-impose fasting or abstinence but that's optional.

jamiethompson 10y ago

'Cooking for the Pope' would be an excellent name for a band.