5 ms·

Why not spin it around the other way? What advantages does Mac now have over Windows, in a world where Microsoft is catering to developers from both sides?

by owenwil 10y ago

otterley 10y ago
Because this is an article about abandoning the Mac, not Windows. If it were the other way around, then that would be an equally fair question.
Jdam 10y ago
It doesn't constantly give me "Windows Explorer has stopped working"
- owenwil 10y ago
  I don't think that's been a thing since 2006.
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    We get similar arguments on the Linux side, which haven't been true for a decade.
  - Jdam 10y ago
    Getting that every other day, but to be fair, on a remote machine, connected with Citrix
- Ralfp 10y ago
  Sometimes MacOs reminds me of those times when Explorer could stop working: - If I have sublimetext maximized on other display, my mouse cursor gets stuck at default pointer, no longer changing on context. - If I have same sublimetext maximized on other virtual screen, my mouse cursor stucks in text select. - Option to reorder icons in dock via drag and drop goes away randomly. - When I plug display to my MBPro 2016, menubar has white square where tray goes. - It gets stuck in boot -> kernel panic -> restart -> boot loop when I am starting it with display plugged in via their HDMI dongle. - On random, finder stops showing changes in filesystem. I've had this happen to me in Mavericks on old laptop, it keeps happening in Sierra on new one.
wyager 10y ago
* Actual UNIX, as opposed to a hacky compatibility layer. * Generally nicer hardware even compared to things at the same price point. Don't forget that hardware is more than RAM and CPU specs. There are some notable exceptions with pretty nice hardware, like the surface pro tablets. * More friendly UX all around. This is somewhat subjective, of course, but if you'll recall a while back there were some big corporate IT departments who explained that IT costs were much lower for Mac users. They chalked this up to a combination of increased user friendliness, lower virus risk, and increased reliability. The only activity in my life where I actually choose to use Windows is for FPS games. However, that advantage is disappearing; over half my steam games support mac now.
- otterley 10y ago
  Don't take the bait! Otherwise this thread will devolve into a petty OS war.
Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
I don't think it's "Mac vs Windows" specifically. It's more that the compelling advantages that the Mac once had over _every_ other platform are being eaten away. My first Mac was in 1992 (a IIsi). Since then every computer I've bought (servers aside) has been a Mac. Last week my MBP died. The battery overheated and 'burst', taking the case and trackpad with it. I'll still have a Mac desktop for development and cartography, but I need a laptop, and I simply can't justify £1250 for a MacBook. Instead, for the first time in 25 years, I'm buying something else: a Chromebook, on which I'll install Ubuntu. It's pretty much the same weight (1.19kg vs 0.91kg) and size; it does word processing, web browsing, PDF viewing, and Ruby hacking just fine; and it costs £1,000 less. Sure, the performance is much, much worse, but for my uses that's fine.
abraae 10y ago
Because why abandon anything if it's better than the alternatives?
jccalhoun 10y ago
While I don't want to hijack the op's thread, I would like to hear more about the advantages of the mac. I listen to some mac-centric podcasts and hear them complain about the current state of the mac so much but when they mention windows they just say vague things like "but windows is worse." So what is better about a mac? To give more detail on my use case: I'm not a developer so things like terminal or unix don't really matter to me. And I don't think I've had a virus since the 90s.
- hamandcheese 10y ago
  > so things like terminal or unix don't really matter to me. That's really what it's all about though. Many developers prefer a unix environment. Windows is often neglected in open source, so getting up and running with a working dev environment can be a challenge. So, for many, Windows just isn't really an option. That leaves macOS as the only option that's a first class citizen in all regards -- hardware support from manufacturer, support in open source projects, support for proprietary applications (I.e MS Office), etc. For non-programmers though, there really isn't a meaningful difference. Take your pick.
  - tstrimple 10y ago
    I wonder if and how quickly this will shift with Bash shell support in Windows 10. Unfortunately, there still isn't a great terminal emulator on Windows. ConEmu looks really sad next to iTerm2.
vhakulinen 10y ago
If you "can" switch between Windows <-> Mac, why not give linux a spin? Like, if you're not building apps with native UI kits on those platforms, what is holding you on them?
- hamandcheese 10y ago
  Lack of compelling evidence that there's a *nix distro out there that will serve me better than macOS.
  - vhakulinen 10y ago
    But are you switching to windows? Or have have you recently switched from windows to mac?
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    I really recommend looking outside the Ubuntu ecosystem, (Arch is a personal favourite), if you ever decide to try it.
maxxxxx 10y ago
I work on Windows and have a Mac at home. Windows looks cool at first but when you actually need a workhorse the MacBook is still the best option in my view. Windows 10 and the Surface Book look really nice on paper but once you start using them they have a lot of little problems that make an unpleasant experience. So in my book the Mac is still best but I also agree that the direction Apple is going doesn't look too promising.
- eertami 10y ago
  I too use both. OSX at work, and Windows (7) at home. They are both bad, neither is the best. I remember spending time trying to figure out how to disable the animation that plays when switching OSX virtual desktops - only to find out that you literally can't without code injection or a third party app - rendering the virtual desktops on OSX entirely useless. The fact that this a) is the default behavior and b) is not configurable, is just another in a long line of awful OSX UX and it only gets worse with every update. El Capitan changed terminal font smoothing to something woeful which was also a struggle to revert. Honestly the only way I have found development possible on native OSX and Windows is by stretching a terminal(/putty) to the full size of the desktop and handling all window management with tmux.
  - UnbornSoul 10y ago
    System preferences > Accessibility > Display > Reduce motion. You're, welcome.
    - midwestcode 10y ago
      This has always been an issue with both iPhone and my MBP (though I just got them last year). There are _so_ many options in Sys Prefs and otherwise, and there typically is an answer to problems you're having, but they feel hidden... Pretty minor issue though, I still love both. I'm just not sure if I'll love the new versions everyone seems to be whining about :)
746F7475 10y ago
If I already have a Mac and I'm invested into the Apple ecosystem things on Windows needs to be 10-100 times better for me to make the switch. If you are just starting out or you aren't in the Apple's ecosystem (e.g. you don't have Idevices) then Windows might be the place for you. I'd still go with Linux personally, but that's just me. Or if you just need more power, but I'm guessing most people here don't actually NEED that much power

Why not spin it around the other way? What advantages does Mac now have over Windows, in a world where Microsoft is catering to developers from both sides?

by owenwil 10y ago

Why not spin it around the other way? What advantages does Mac now have over Windows, in a world where Microsoft is catering to developers from both sides?

otterley 10y ago

Because this is an article about abandoning the Mac, not Windows. If it were the other way around, then that would be an equally fair question.

Jdam 10y ago

It doesn't constantly give me "Windows Explorer has stopped working"

owenwil 10y ago
I don't think that's been a thing since 2006.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  We get similar arguments on the Linux side, which haven't been true for a decade.
- Jdam 10y ago
  Getting that every other day, but to be fair, on a remote machine, connected with Citrix
Ralfp 10y ago
Sometimes MacOs reminds me of those times when Explorer could stop working: - If I have sublimetext maximized on other display, my mouse cursor gets stuck at default pointer, no longer changing on context. - If I have same sublimetext maximized on other virtual screen, my mouse cursor stucks in text select. - Option to reorder icons in dock via drag and drop goes away randomly. - When I plug display to my MBPro 2016, menubar has white square where tray goes. - It gets stuck in boot -> kernel panic -> restart -> boot loop when I am starting it with display plugged in via their HDMI dongle. - On random, finder stops showing changes in filesystem. I've had this happen to me in Mavericks on old laptop, it keeps happening in Sierra on new one.

wyager 10y ago

* Actual UNIX, as opposed to a hacky compatibility layer. * Generally nicer hardware even compared to things at the same price point. Don't forget that hardware is more than RAM and CPU specs. There are some notable exceptions with pretty nice hardware, like the surface pro tablets. * More friendly UX all around. This is somewhat subjective, of course, but if you'll recall a while back there were some big corporate IT departments who explained that IT costs were much lower for Mac users. They chalked this up to a combination of increased user friendliness, lower virus risk, and increased reliability. The only activity in my life where I actually choose to use Windows is for FPS games. However, that advantage is disappearing; over half my steam games support mac now.

otterley 10y ago
Don't take the bait! Otherwise this thread will devolve into a petty OS war.

Doctor_Fegg 10y ago

I don't think it's "Mac vs Windows" specifically. It's more that the compelling advantages that the Mac once had over _every_ other platform are being eaten away. My first Mac was in 1992 (a IIsi). Since then every computer I've bought (servers aside) has been a Mac. Last week my MBP died. The battery overheated and 'burst', taking the case and trackpad with it. I'll still have a Mac desktop for development and cartography, but I need a laptop, and I simply can't justify £1250 for a MacBook. Instead, for the first time in 25 years, I'm buying something else: a Chromebook, on which I'll install Ubuntu. It's pretty much the same weight (1.19kg vs 0.91kg) and size; it does word processing, web browsing, PDF viewing, and Ruby hacking just fine; and it costs £1,000 less. Sure, the performance is much, much worse, but for my uses that's fine.

abraae 10y ago

Because why abandon anything if it's better than the alternatives?

jccalhoun 10y ago

While I don't want to hijack the op's thread, I would like to hear more about the advantages of the mac. I listen to some mac-centric podcasts and hear them complain about the current state of the mac so much but when they mention windows they just say vague things like "but windows is worse." So what is better about a mac? To give more detail on my use case: I'm not a developer so things like terminal or unix don't really matter to me. And I don't think I've had a virus since the 90s.

hamandcheese 10y ago
> so things like terminal or unix don't really matter to me. That's really what it's all about though. Many developers prefer a unix environment. Windows is often neglected in open source, so getting up and running with a working dev environment can be a challenge. So, for many, Windows just isn't really an option. That leaves macOS as the only option that's a first class citizen in all regards -- hardware support from manufacturer, support in open source projects, support for proprietary applications (I.e MS Office), etc. For non-programmers though, there really isn't a meaningful difference. Take your pick.
- tstrimple 10y ago
  I wonder if and how quickly this will shift with Bash shell support in Windows 10. Unfortunately, there still isn't a great terminal emulator on Windows. ConEmu looks really sad next to iTerm2.

vhakulinen 10y ago

If you "can" switch between Windows <-> Mac, why not give linux a spin? Like, if you're not building apps with native UI kits on those platforms, what is holding you on them?

hamandcheese 10y ago
Lack of compelling evidence that there's a *nix distro out there that will serve me better than macOS.
- vhakulinen 10y ago
  But are you switching to windows? Or have have you recently switched from windows to mac?
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  I really recommend looking outside the Ubuntu ecosystem, (Arch is a personal favourite), if you ever decide to try it.

maxxxxx 10y ago

I work on Windows and have a Mac at home. Windows looks cool at first but when you actually need a workhorse the MacBook is still the best option in my view. Windows 10 and the Surface Book look really nice on paper but once you start using them they have a lot of little problems that make an unpleasant experience. So in my book the Mac is still best but I also agree that the direction Apple is going doesn't look too promising.

eertami 10y ago
I too use both. OSX at work, and Windows (7) at home. They are both bad, neither is the best. I remember spending time trying to figure out how to disable the animation that plays when switching OSX virtual desktops - only to find out that you literally can't without code injection or a third party app - rendering the virtual desktops on OSX entirely useless. The fact that this a) is the default behavior and b) is not configurable, is just another in a long line of awful OSX UX and it only gets worse with every update. El Capitan changed terminal font smoothing to something woeful which was also a struggle to revert. Honestly the only way I have found development possible on native OSX and Windows is by stretching a terminal(/putty) to the full size of the desktop and handling all window management with tmux.
- UnbornSoul 10y ago
  System preferences > Accessibility > Display > Reduce motion. You're, welcome.
  - midwestcode 10y ago
    This has always been an issue with both iPhone and my MBP (though I just got them last year). There are _so_ many options in Sys Prefs and otherwise, and there typically is an answer to problems you're having, but they feel hidden... Pretty minor issue though, I still love both. I'm just not sure if I'll love the new versions everyone seems to be whining about :)

746F7475 10y ago

If I already have a Mac and I'm invested into the Apple ecosystem things on Windows needs to be 10-100 times better for me to make the switch. If you are just starting out or you aren't in the Apple's ecosystem (e.g. you don't have Idevices) then Windows might be the place for you. I'd still go with Linux personally, but that's just me. Or if you just need more power, but I'm guessing most people here don't actually NEED that much power