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I've never used Instacart but it seems to be a weird thing to outrage over, when apparently you are told the final payment upfront, and you know you are orderin

I've never used Instacart but it seems to be a weird thing to outrage over, when apparently you are told the final payment upfront, and you know you are ordering from a premium service that is fundamentally a luxury offering. And I'd expect most people to have some basic ballpark idea of how much everyday groceries cost. Does this person also expect businesses to disclose their profit margins before he's comfortable doing business with them? Ever bought a bottle of water at a stadium? We're looking at several 100 percents of markup there.

icebraining 10y ago
While some people do get outraged by high margins, the main issue I see here is that they do pretend to publish their markup, but it's widely out of whack with reality. 63% may technically fit into "15%+", but it's highly misleading. They should just remove it.
- notyourwork 10y ago
  Exactly. It is like saying this item only cost a few dollars. When in reality it is a $100,000. I didn't lie but it is surely misleading.
  - IAmGraydon 10y ago
    Wow.
- IAmGraydon 10y ago
  I have no idea how you think "15%+" is misleading. You can't simply ignore the + sign to make your case. That says the markup STARTS AT 15% and goes up from there. Also, the markup on store items wasn't 63%. That was after additional fees, tax, tip, etc. The markup was 42.8%.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    I didn't ignore the plus sign, that's why I called it misleading and not outright fraud. There's an expectation that when a number is quoted, that the value is somewhere in its ballpark, otherwise it'd be completely meaningless: they say "it may be 15%+", which if you read it as a pure logical statement, it can literally be any amount. It's only meaningful because of that common expectation, which they are exploiting. Fair enough regarding the 42% vs 63%, though.
- matz1 10y ago
  It might be misleading to you but to them its increased revenue.
chillydawg 10y ago
I think it's just the degree. Instead of saying we charge 10% on gross plus a delivery fee of $x based on demand, they add margin to everything and double charge (service fee vs tip) for things people are unsure about. On the other hand, it is indeed a luxury service and people are free not to use it. The market will correct it if it needs correcting. In the UK, this would never fly as pretty much every supermarket has home delivery with identical online v in store pricing + delivery fee. It's much more honest.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Nullabillity 10y ago
> Does this person also expect businesses to disclose their profit margins before he's comfortable doing business with them? Is that really such an unreasonable demand?
- CocaKoala 10y ago
  Do you expect a restaurant to give you the ingredient cost and labour cost of your meal on your bill, so you can tell how much the privilege of having somebody cook for you was?
  - fragmede 10y ago
    I've thought of that before, and think it would be really great to know. I love to know which restaurant is simply reheating Sysco pre-prepared foods, and which ones are spending extra on organic free trade ingredients. If the food tastes delicious but the chef is underpaid because they're buying more expensive ingredients relative to the less tasty restaurant which buys cheaper ingredients with a larger markup. Though; I've also considered how a reverse BlueApron service might work - you bring ingredients to a chef and kitchen, who then cooks the food for you. My cooking ability, limited to the occasional meal prepared after work is nothing compared to a master chef who's gone to school and practiced their art for every day for years as a job, and I'd gladly pay to see a master at work. (I doubt that particular niche is big enough to sustain a business though because, well, restaurants exist.)
    - CocaKoala 10y ago
      > reverse BlueApron service Like a cooking class, but without any lab work?
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Is that really such an unreasonable demand? Yes. That's how price controls and messed up economies start out. Sometimes profit margins are highly misleading. For instance, the profit margins for software development are extremely high if you calculate them a certain way. ("You're only paying how much for capital and electricity and you're charging me how much?") The main thing is what value the business brings you. They can charge whatever they want. As long as you value their service/goods more than what they're charging you, who cares how much it costs them?
gdulli 10y ago
I think the convenience/laziness economy has an effect on younger people who have never lived as adults without it. They don't develop the same basic knowledge of the inherent/ideal cost of groceries or the ability to measure the total cost over time of car ownership vs. perpetual taxi service. I have friends who call an Uber even though our company buys us monthly public transportation passes. In a city with a good system. Meanwhile I partition my everyday purchases among grocery stores, CVS, and Target based on a detailed knowledge of which product categories are inherently cheapest in each and which are currently or regularly go on sale at each and how aggressively. For someone with a six-figure salary I probably micro-manage it more than I need to. But I look at Instacart and Uber prices and just laugh.
gdulli 10y ago
I think the convenience/laziness economy has an effect on younger people who have never lived as adults without it. They don't develop the same basic knowledge of the inherent/ideal cost of groceries or the ability to measure the total cost over time of car ownership vs. perpetual taxi service. I have friends who call an Uber even though our company buys us monthly public transportation passes. In a city with a good system. Meanwhile I partition my everyday purchases among grocery stores, CVS, and Target based on a detailed knowledge of which product categories are inherently cheapest in each and which are currently or regularly go on sale at each and how aggressively. For someone with a six-figure salary I probably micro-manage it more than I need to. But I look at Instacart and Uber prices and just laugh.

icebraining 10y ago

While some people do get outraged by high margins, the main issue I see here is that they do pretend to publish their markup, but it's widely out of whack with reality. 63% may technically fit into "15%+", but it's highly misleading. They should just remove it.

notyourwork 10y ago
Exactly. It is like saying this item only cost a few dollars. When in reality it is a $100,000. I didn't lie but it is surely misleading.
- IAmGraydon 10y ago
  Wow.
IAmGraydon 10y ago
I have no idea how you think "15%+" is misleading. You can't simply ignore the + sign to make your case. That says the markup STARTS AT 15% and goes up from there. Also, the markup on store items wasn't 63%. That was after additional fees, tax, tip, etc. The markup was 42.8%.
- icebraining 10y ago
  I didn't ignore the plus sign, that's why I called it misleading and not outright fraud. There's an expectation that when a number is quoted, that the value is somewhere in its ballpark, otherwise it'd be completely meaningless: they say "it may be 15%+", which if you read it as a pure logical statement, it can literally be any amount. It's only meaningful because of that common expectation, which they are exploiting. Fair enough regarding the 42% vs 63%, though.
matz1 10y ago
It might be misleading to you but to them its increased revenue.

chillydawg 10y ago

I think it's just the degree. Instead of saying we charge 10% on gross plus a delivery fee of $x based on demand, they add margin to everything and double charge (service fee vs tip) for things people are unsure about. On the other hand, it is indeed a luxury service and people are free not to use it. The market will correct it if it needs correcting. In the UK, this would never fly as pretty much every supermarket has home delivery with identical online v in store pricing + delivery fee. It's much more honest.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Nullabillity 10y ago

> Does this person also expect businesses to disclose their profit margins before he's comfortable doing business with them? Is that really such an unreasonable demand?

CocaKoala 10y ago
Do you expect a restaurant to give you the ingredient cost and labour cost of your meal on your bill, so you can tell how much the privilege of having somebody cook for you was?
- fragmede 10y ago
  I've thought of that before, and think it would be really great to know. I love to know which restaurant is simply reheating Sysco pre-prepared foods, and which ones are spending extra on organic free trade ingredients. If the food tastes delicious but the chef is underpaid because they're buying more expensive ingredients relative to the less tasty restaurant which buys cheaper ingredients with a larger markup. Though; I've also considered how a reverse BlueApron service might work - you bring ingredients to a chef and kitchen, who then cooks the food for you. My cooking ability, limited to the occasional meal prepared after work is nothing compared to a master chef who's gone to school and practiced their art for every day for years as a job, and I'd gladly pay to see a master at work. (I doubt that particular niche is big enough to sustain a business though because, well, restaurants exist.)
  - CocaKoala 10y ago
    > reverse BlueApron service Like a cooking class, but without any lab work?
jimmywanger 10y ago
> Is that really such an unreasonable demand? Yes. That's how price controls and messed up economies start out. Sometimes profit margins are highly misleading. For instance, the profit margins for software development are extremely high if you calculate them a certain way. ("You're only paying how much for capital and electricity and you're charging me how much?") The main thing is what value the business brings you. They can charge whatever they want. As long as you value their service/goods more than what they're charging you, who cares how much it costs them?

gdulli 10y ago

I think the convenience/laziness economy has an effect on younger people who have never lived as adults without it. They don't develop the same basic knowledge of the inherent/ideal cost of groceries or the ability to measure the total cost over time of car ownership vs. perpetual taxi service. I have friends who call an Uber even though our company buys us monthly public transportation passes. In a city with a good system. Meanwhile I partition my everyday purchases among grocery stores, CVS, and Target based on a detailed knowledge of which product categories are inherently cheapest in each and which are currently or regularly go on sale at each and how aggressively. For someone with a six-figure salary I probably micro-manage it more than I need to. But I look at Instacart and Uber prices and just laugh.

gdulli 10y ago