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I fear that universal basic income might be the nail in the coffin of marriage and monogamy. Basically, government would replace any need for a male provider.

I fear that universal basic income might be the nail in the coffin of marriage and monogamy. Basically, government would replace any need for a male provider. It's a recipe for disaster. Civilization is built on monogamous relationships: children being raised by a couple (statistically a far better environment than single parenthood), young men and women focusing their energy for the betterment of society.

rimantas 10y ago
Repeating a statement will not make it a fact.
- Red_Tarsius 10y ago
  I wrote this comment before the one above. I'm open to other points of views if you write them down. I can't tell you for certain whether my statement is an absolute fact, but there seems to be some truth in it that is worth thinking about. Are you aware of any thriving, long-lasting society that rejects monogamy?
  - throwanem 10y ago
    You probably need to explain Iceland, for a start.
    - sheepmullet 10y ago
      Does Iceland reject monogamy? I always thought their divorce and breakup rate was a lot lower than in the US?
      - marchenko 10y ago
        Iceland has low rates of marriage, but is fairly conventional about monogamy. Iceland also has roughly as many residents as Tulsa, OK - a population just large enough to avoid inbreeding depression.
    - andai 10y ago
      It is worth mentioning that the entire population of Iceland is less than half that of Amsterdam.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Actually, due to a brain bug, in the species brains, repetition equals truth. Was in hacker news recently, so im only repeating that..
  - alexvoda 10y ago
    Actually, that HN thread left a mark on me. Before that I was vaguely familiar with the concept. "History is written by the winners", the concept of superstitions, marketing, appeal to the majority, etc. But I was mostly dismissing it, considering that rational thought would in the end triumph. Considering that, in the least, each repetition should bring extra information for the effect to manifest. That thread prompted me to give some though to the subject and the answer I arrived at so far does not make me happy at all. Realizing that repetition by itself is enough, clarifies some things I did not understand and simply classified as reality not making sense. I feel ever more justified in my energy consuming efforts to fact-check information I receive and in my strides to present information as opinion/personal thought/conclusion based on sources/mere reproduction of sources instead of truth. I am more aware of this than before but at the same time it causes a lot more stress to me now than it did before. I am less willing than I was to engage in live discussions where I receive information, because that places a burden of fact checking on me and I can not always do that at the speed of real life. And depending on the interlocutor I can not rephrase the discussion in terms of hypothetical statements.
    - Pica_soO 10y ago
      The burden of proof really is a burden- one sometimes wishes one could take the whole heap of aggregated knowledge from one discussion board to the next. With automated named references to counter arguments. The problem is, people would tend to not read this Wiki:Discussion page, as its "external" to the community, so in addition a system for metering trustworthiness (trusted by users i trust) would be needed.
  - rimantas 10y ago
    This bug can only make you believe something is true, but not make that said thing true (except in some cases where the two overlap).
tomjen3 10y ago
Under ubi, which I don't support, the males will still bring in money and three will still be an advantage to having an extra caretaker.
sheepmullet 10y ago
Universal basic income would allow us to get rid of child support and alimony.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
vertex-four 10y ago
Really, the issue is that people in general no longer have a "script" to play to - study until 16/18, get a job, work your way up, get engaged, get married, buy/inherit a house, have three kids, care for them until 18, work a few more years and then settle down for a comfy retirement partially paid for by one's now-adult kids. Oh, and present oneself as a good Christian all the while. Here's the thing though - not having a script is a good thing. It allows people to discover what matters to them and what humanity and society is to them. If it's something other than the current state of things - then it should've been changed a long time ago, rather than putting pressure on people to conform to an ideal that nobody wants when they're allowed to think for themselves. It's also what LGBT people have been dealing with for a long time, so you might want to ask how they deal with it, rather than asserting it's the end of society. Single parenthood isn't the only alternative to being raised by a couple. In fact, those being the only two options is a fairly recent thing. It used to be that children were broadly brought up by communities - to the point that food would be served by whoever happened to have the kids nearby when it was served. Still happens in some places, even in the middle of huge cities - I was brought up like that. Now, for some reason (fear?), parents attempt to keep a tight leash at all times, and the only interaction with one's community a kid might get is through approved and strictly regulated extracurricular activities.
- mariodiana 10y ago
  Being "allowed" and actually being capable are two very different things. This is essentially what the Existentialist philosophers have been lamenting. The great mass of people, if they're allowed to go off the rails, will simply crash.
  - vertex-four 10y ago
    If the argument is that when people are given free will, very bad things will happen - I have no idea what to say, to be honest. It's certainly not compatible with the concept of a liberal democracy, at the least.
    - mariodiana 10y ago
pokemongoaway 10y ago
This is a very reasonable hypothesis... Has really no one studied this formally?
princeb 10y ago
> I fear that universal basic income might be the nail in the coffin of marriage and monogamy brave new world. maybe it will take the shape of "Universal Basic Soma". orgy porgy!

rimantas 10y ago

Repeating a statement will not make it a fact.

Red_Tarsius 10y ago
I wrote this comment before the one above. I'm open to other points of views if you write them down. I can't tell you for certain whether my statement is an absolute fact, but there seems to be some truth in it that is worth thinking about. Are you aware of any thriving, long-lasting society that rejects monogamy?
- throwanem 10y ago
  You probably need to explain Iceland, for a start.
  - sheepmullet 10y ago
    Does Iceland reject monogamy? I always thought their divorce and breakup rate was a lot lower than in the US?
    - marchenko 10y ago
      Iceland has low rates of marriage, but is fairly conventional about monogamy. Iceland also has roughly as many residents as Tulsa, OK - a population just large enough to avoid inbreeding depression.
  - andai 10y ago
    It is worth mentioning that the entire population of Iceland is less than half that of Amsterdam.
Pica_soO 10y ago
Actually, due to a brain bug, in the species brains, repetition equals truth. Was in hacker news recently, so im only repeating that..
- alexvoda 10y ago
  Actually, that HN thread left a mark on me. Before that I was vaguely familiar with the concept. "History is written by the winners", the concept of superstitions, marketing, appeal to the majority, etc. But I was mostly dismissing it, considering that rational thought would in the end triumph. Considering that, in the least, each repetition should bring extra information for the effect to manifest. That thread prompted me to give some though to the subject and the answer I arrived at so far does not make me happy at all. Realizing that repetition by itself is enough, clarifies some things I did not understand and simply classified as reality not making sense. I feel ever more justified in my energy consuming efforts to fact-check information I receive and in my strides to present information as opinion/personal thought/conclusion based on sources/mere reproduction of sources instead of truth. I am more aware of this than before but at the same time it causes a lot more stress to me now than it did before. I am less willing than I was to engage in live discussions where I receive information, because that places a burden of fact checking on me and I can not always do that at the speed of real life. And depending on the interlocutor I can not rephrase the discussion in terms of hypothetical statements.
  - Pica_soO 10y ago
    The burden of proof really is a burden- one sometimes wishes one could take the whole heap of aggregated knowledge from one discussion board to the next. With automated named references to counter arguments. The problem is, people would tend to not read this Wiki:Discussion page, as its "external" to the community, so in addition a system for metering trustworthiness (trusted by users i trust) would be needed.
- rimantas 10y ago
  This bug can only make you believe something is true, but not make that said thing true (except in some cases where the two overlap).

tomjen3 10y ago

Under ubi, which I don't support, the males will still bring in money and three will still be an advantage to having an extra caretaker.

sheepmullet 10y ago

Universal basic income would allow us to get rid of child support and alimony.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

vertex-four 10y ago

Really, the issue is that people in general no longer have a "script" to play to - study until 16/18, get a job, work your way up, get engaged, get married, buy/inherit a house, have three kids, care for them until 18, work a few more years and then settle down for a comfy retirement partially paid for by one's now-adult kids. Oh, and present oneself as a good Christian all the while. Here's the thing though - not having a script is a good thing. It allows people to discover what matters to them and what humanity and society is to them. If it's something other than the current state of things - then it should've been changed a long time ago, rather than putting pressure on people to conform to an ideal that nobody wants when they're allowed to think for themselves. It's also what LGBT people have been dealing with for a long time, so you might want to ask how they deal with it, rather than asserting it's the end of society. Single parenthood isn't the only alternative to being raised by a couple. In fact, those being the only two options is a fairly recent thing. It used to be that children were broadly brought up by communities - to the point that food would be served by whoever happened to have the kids nearby when it was served. Still happens in some places, even in the middle of huge cities - I was brought up like that. Now, for some reason (fear?), parents attempt to keep a tight leash at all times, and the only interaction with one's community a kid might get is through approved and strictly regulated extracurricular activities.

mariodiana 10y ago
Being "allowed" and actually being capable are two very different things. This is essentially what the Existentialist philosophers have been lamenting. The great mass of people, if they're allowed to go off the rails, will simply crash.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  If the argument is that when people are given free will, very bad things will happen - I have no idea what to say, to be honest. It's certainly not compatible with the concept of a liberal democracy, at the least.
  - mariodiana 10y ago

pokemongoaway 10y ago

This is a very reasonable hypothesis... Has really no one studied this formally?

princeb 10y ago

> I fear that universal basic income might be the nail in the coffin of marriage and monogamy brave new world. maybe it will take the shape of "Universal Basic Soma". orgy porgy!