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Too many things are linked to jobs. It will be a hard thing to break. I wonder if the universal basic income will be enough to make the societal shift needed i

Too many things are linked to jobs. It will be a hard thing to break. I wonder if the universal basic income will be enough to make the societal shift needed in this case.

daodedickinson 10y ago
Well, what do you think the cause of hypergamy is?
- mirimir 10y ago
  Natural selection, I think. It's not a term that I was familiar with, but a little digging found this:[0] > The other, minor difference is that men are polygamous, not hypergamous. A man’s imperative is not (necessarily) to get the best woman. It’s to get as many women as possible with as little investment and commitment as possible. If he can do it, he would love to get as many women as possible at and a little below his own SMV, and have sex with as many of them as possible for as long as possible, without committing to or investing in any of them. That’s spinning plates. Most men don’t do this, because they can’t, because they’re not attractive enough, but that’s a different post. OK, so I'm a guy, and I can say for sure that this is what I always wanted. Most of the time, I wasn't attractive enough, because I was too self-conscious and nerdy. But I did manage it for a few years, until STDs took me down :( Anyway, there's also this about women: > A woman’s imperative is to get the best one man she can get for sex and for provisioning. That’s why you don’t see many women “dating” (i.e. having sex with) several different men at the same time. Women don’t spin plates; they pick the best plate they can and take care of it as best they can. Instead of trying to collect plates, they just change out the plates, one for another, when a bigger, better one comes along. That's consistent with what the parent article concludes, I think. It's just that there aren't many good plates left. 0) https://therationalmale.com/category/hypergamy-2/ https://therationalmale.com/category/hypergamy-2/ Edit: Responding to therpe1, I'm no evolutionary biologist, and I get that I've quoted a guy with quite an agenda. Still, the distinction that he draws fits will with the biology that I learned, and my personal experience. But please, do cite evidence.
  - therpe1 10y ago
    Has HN really sunk to this level of pseudo-science? I do think it's interesting that as capitalism begins to shed people/jobs en masse -- and it's kind of the same thing because once you get rid of the jobs you inevitably have to get rid of the people even if its through very indirect like skyrocketing health insurance premiums -- people need to devise these kind of elaborate justifications based on evolutionary non-science. I guess it's easier to believe that all women are saving themselves for millionaires and alpha-males than it is to admit the basic truth that under capitalism everyone and everything is disposable in the name of accumulation. > That’s why you don’t see many women “dating” (i.e. having sex with) several different men at the same time. Women don’t spin plates; they pick the best plate they can and take care of it as best they can. It's laughable. This guy really has limited experience with women.
  - 3131s 10y ago
    I don't even know where to start with that garbage article. First, most everybody has a natural urge to have sex with a lot of hot people. It's just that some people (women, for instance) will face greater opprobrium from their families and communities for doing so. That doesn't stop all women though. Many do in fact have sex with multiple men at a time. I am open to talking about the statistics of how many men vs. how many women do this, but I would not make conclusions involving stupid plate-spinning metaphors as that article does. And actually, the only stats I can find indicate that women tend to engage in polyamory more so than men [1]. And whether or not you're personal preferred lifestyle is to settle down, it's pretty much irrelevant when you're speaking about men generally. I have had a very high number of sexual partners, but I chose to then get married and have a single sexual partner. It's not because I would have been unable to keep sleeping around. I get approached by women more now than ever before and I'm not lying to say that I could find a new attractive sexual partner every day. I don't want to though. So, my experience and attitude directly contradict that passage you quoted. [1] http://www.advocate.com/current-issue/2016/1/08/polyamory-numbers http://www.advocate.com/current-issue/2016/1/08/polyamory-nu...
    - mirimir 10y ago
      Yes, there's strong selection for sexual desire :) And yes, men have traditionally had more slack about being promiscuous. However, over several years in an extended polyamory community, I found it far more common for women to push for commitment and monogamy than for men. And that's what I've heard about current app-based hookup culture.
Red_Tarsius 10y ago
I fear that universal basic income might be the nail in the coffin of marriage and monogamy. Basically, government would replace any need for a male provider. It's a recipe for disaster. Civilization is built on monogamous relationships: children being raised by a couple (statistically a far better environment than single parenthood), young men and women focusing their energy for the betterment of society.
- rimantas 10y ago
  Repeating a statement will not make it a fact.
  - Red_Tarsius 10y ago
    I wrote this comment before the one above. I'm open to other points of views if you write them down. I can't tell you for certain whether my statement is an absolute fact, but there seems to be some truth in it that is worth thinking about. Are you aware of any thriving, long-lasting society that rejects monogamy?
    - throwanem 10y ago
      You probably need to explain Iceland, for a start.
      - sheepmullet 10y ago
        Does Iceland reject monogamy? I always thought their divorce and breakup rate was a lot lower than in the US?
        marchenko 10y ago
        Iceland has low rates of marriage, but is fairly conventional about monogamy. Iceland also has roughly as many residents as Tulsa, OK - a population just large enough to avoid inbreeding depression.
      - 10y ago

Too many things are linked to jobs. It will be a hard thing to break. I wonder if the universal basic income will be enough to make the societal shift needed in this case.

daodedickinson 10y ago

Well, what do you think the cause of hypergamy is?

mirimir 10y ago
Natural selection, I think. It's not a term that I was familiar with, but a little digging found this:[0] > The other, minor difference is that men are polygamous, not hypergamous. A man’s imperative is not (necessarily) to get the best woman. It’s to get as many women as possible with as little investment and commitment as possible. If he can do it, he would love to get as many women as possible at and a little below his own SMV, and have sex with as many of them as possible for as long as possible, without committing to or investing in any of them. That’s spinning plates. Most men don’t do this, because they can’t, because they’re not attractive enough, but that’s a different post. OK, so I'm a guy, and I can say for sure that this is what I always wanted. Most of the time, I wasn't attractive enough, because I was too self-conscious and nerdy. But I did manage it for a few years, until STDs took me down :( Anyway, there's also this about women: > A woman’s imperative is to get the best one man she can get for sex and for provisioning. That’s why you don’t see many women “dating” (i.e. having sex with) several different men at the same time. Women don’t spin plates; they pick the best plate they can and take care of it as best they can. Instead of trying to collect plates, they just change out the plates, one for another, when a bigger, better one comes along. That's consistent with what the parent article concludes, I think. It's just that there aren't many good plates left. 0) https://therationalmale.com/category/hypergamy-2/ https://therationalmale.com/category/hypergamy-2/ Edit: Responding to therpe1, I'm no evolutionary biologist, and I get that I've quoted a guy with quite an agenda. Still, the distinction that he draws fits will with the biology that I learned, and my personal experience. But please, do cite evidence.
- therpe1 10y ago
  Has HN really sunk to this level of pseudo-science? I do think it's interesting that as capitalism begins to shed people/jobs en masse -- and it's kind of the same thing because once you get rid of the jobs you inevitably have to get rid of the people even if its through very indirect like skyrocketing health insurance premiums -- people need to devise these kind of elaborate justifications based on evolutionary non-science. I guess it's easier to believe that all women are saving themselves for millionaires and alpha-males than it is to admit the basic truth that under capitalism everyone and everything is disposable in the name of accumulation. > That’s why you don’t see many women “dating” (i.e. having sex with) several different men at the same time. Women don’t spin plates; they pick the best plate they can and take care of it as best they can. It's laughable. This guy really has limited experience with women.
- 3131s 10y ago
  I don't even know where to start with that garbage article. First, most everybody has a natural urge to have sex with a lot of hot people. It's just that some people (women, for instance) will face greater opprobrium from their families and communities for doing so. That doesn't stop all women though. Many do in fact have sex with multiple men at a time. I am open to talking about the statistics of how many men vs. how many women do this, but I would not make conclusions involving stupid plate-spinning metaphors as that article does. And actually, the only stats I can find indicate that women tend to engage in polyamory more so than men [1]. And whether or not you're personal preferred lifestyle is to settle down, it's pretty much irrelevant when you're speaking about men generally. I have had a very high number of sexual partners, but I chose to then get married and have a single sexual partner. It's not because I would have been unable to keep sleeping around. I get approached by women more now than ever before and I'm not lying to say that I could find a new attractive sexual partner every day. I don't want to though. So, my experience and attitude directly contradict that passage you quoted. [1] http://www.advocate.com/current-issue/2016/1/08/polyamory-numbers http://www.advocate.com/current-issue/2016/1/08/polyamory-nu...
  - mirimir 10y ago
    Yes, there's strong selection for sexual desire :) And yes, men have traditionally had more slack about being promiscuous. However, over several years in an extended polyamory community, I found it far more common for women to push for commitment and monogamy than for men. And that's what I've heard about current app-based hookup culture.

Red_Tarsius 10y ago

I fear that universal basic income might be the nail in the coffin of marriage and monogamy. Basically, government would replace any need for a male provider. It's a recipe for disaster. Civilization is built on monogamous relationships: children being raised by a couple (statistically a far better environment than single parenthood), young men and women focusing their energy for the betterment of society.

rimantas 10y ago
Repeating a statement will not make it a fact.
- Red_Tarsius 10y ago
  I wrote this comment before the one above. I'm open to other points of views if you write them down. I can't tell you for certain whether my statement is an absolute fact, but there seems to be some truth in it that is worth thinking about. Are you aware of any thriving, long-lasting society that rejects monogamy?
  - throwanem 10y ago
    You probably need to explain Iceland, for a start.
    - sheepmullet 10y ago
      Does Iceland reject monogamy? I always thought their divorce and breakup rate was a lot lower than in the US?
      - marchenko 10y ago
        Iceland has low rates of marriage, but is fairly conventional about monogamy. Iceland also has roughly as many residents as Tulsa, OK - a population just large enough to avoid inbreeding depression.
    - 10y ago