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And yet just today... "China’s sprawling Internet censorship regime is harming the country’s economic and scientific progress, a senior official has said in a

And yet just today... "China’s sprawling Internet censorship regime is harming the country’s economic and scientific progress, a senior official has said in a rare public rebuke of long-standing Chinese Communist Party (CCP) policy." http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2017/03/05/2003666158 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2017/03/05/20... So they're creating alot of startups that probably are just copycats of what's existing. Not surprising considering China really isn't known for innovations.

da02 10y ago
It's most likely a jumping off point. One way to learn painting in the past was to copy paintings made by masters. So as the economy develops and more people can afford to take risks, innovations should be more common (unless govt intervention prevents it). Japan was viewed upon as a land of where cheap imitations were made.
- kitschshrine 10y ago
  They've been saying that since the Chinese economy opened up in the 80s, really opened up in the 90s, really really opened up in the 2000s. so far, nothing in 35 years. Japan had so much innovations in way less time. meanwhile China's economy is crashing down, and no more free FDI to fuel any further progress
  - Gabriel_h 10y ago
    I have a few anecdotal examples of innovations or ways in which China is 'ahead': Bike-sharing startups like MoBike: Use their app to find the nearest bike to you, scan a QR code to unlock it, and pay $0.15 for one hour. You can then ride and leave it anywhere. Admittedly, this is only possible due to v. high urban density (China has ten cities with populations greater than London and similar urban densities). I can order a lot from the same app/interface: takeaway, cinema tickets, hotels, flights, KTV, etc. I find this more convenient than UK. Mobile payment penetration here is very high here too. Almost everyone pays for almost everything with WeChat. Andrew Ng argues that AI progress in China is underreported due to the language barrier. I suspect this insight applies more generally to all the innovations happening here. *https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/china-artificial-intelligence/516615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/china...
    - gentro 10y ago
      The amount of information available to westerners about the Chinese economy is pretty pitiful. Here in the U.S. there's like four or five talking points that echo around the media about the Chinese economy and those are the only tidbits people bring up. I've seen a few NHK documentaries about China. Kudos to them for chasing down interesting angles.
    - zhte415 10y ago
      Bike sharing apps are interesting in they can generate more income via interest on the deposits held by users with them than they generate in income.
    - emiliobumachar 10y ago
      Wow, the bike rental app is awesome. Do you know how they prevent theft?
    - KingMob 10y ago
      Ng may be right, and the article suggests a massive upsurge in papers in the last 3-4 years, but I'm dubious about quality, if the AI field is anything like neuroscience was. When I was back in grad school, I worked with a prominent Dutch researcher who routinely saw his papers translated into Chinese and re-published by Chinese authors as their own. At first, it drove him crazy, and he tried to get them to stop, issue retractions, etc. But he eventually learned to roll with it. The people involved may have had excellent careers at home, but were contributing no new knowledge, and just taking up resources.
  - kirashogun 10y ago
    Maybe it's because Japan has been doing it since Meiji restoration which you might want note happened a tad earlier than post war. Looks like someone is still stuck on the first stage, denial. Please stay there since it has no relevance to reality.
  - da02 10y ago
    You're right: there should have been more innovation by now. I withdraw my comment. (There should have at least been a few Akio Morita's by now.)
    - kirashogun 10y ago
      Wow you are easily convinced. Still stuck living in the 80s? Japan is basically finished at the moment. When's the last time the Sony brand meant something other than meh. Heck even the Korean are eating Japan alive. Not meant to bash Japan as I like the country the food, literature and I speak the language but facts are facts. This is not saying China's success is guaranteed but to compare it to Japan while ignoring the fact Japan started about 120 years earlier give it take and didn't have a wildly arrogant and corrupt Qing government, didn't have incompetent woman at the helm such as CiXi, didn't go through stupidest human experiment on earth called communism while destroying a generation of intellectuals is a bit ignorant. Maybe if we extend a bit beyond Meiji and go for 4000 years, you will find Japan's history stops at 100 AD due to lack of a writing system until they imported Chinese. Now if I was a betting man, given what China has achieved since 1978, I would say there's a good chance China will surprise every western frog stuck in their well.
matz1 10y ago
Also not surprising that one of the most effective way to good at something is to imitate how the expert do it.

da02 10y ago

It's most likely a jumping off point. One way to learn painting in the past was to copy paintings made by masters. So as the economy develops and more people can afford to take risks, innovations should be more common (unless govt intervention prevents it). Japan was viewed upon as a land of where cheap imitations were made.

kitschshrine 10y ago
They've been saying that since the Chinese economy opened up in the 80s, really opened up in the 90s, really really opened up in the 2000s. so far, nothing in 35 years. Japan had so much innovations in way less time. meanwhile China's economy is crashing down, and no more free FDI to fuel any further progress
- Gabriel_h 10y ago
  I have a few anecdotal examples of innovations or ways in which China is 'ahead': Bike-sharing startups like MoBike: Use their app to find the nearest bike to you, scan a QR code to unlock it, and pay $0.15 for one hour. You can then ride and leave it anywhere. Admittedly, this is only possible due to v. high urban density (China has ten cities with populations greater than London and similar urban densities). I can order a lot from the same app/interface: takeaway, cinema tickets, hotels, flights, KTV, etc. I find this more convenient than UK. Mobile payment penetration here is very high here too. Almost everyone pays for almost everything with WeChat. Andrew Ng argues that AI progress in China is underreported due to the language barrier. I suspect this insight applies more generally to all the innovations happening here. *https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/china-artificial-intelligence/516615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/china...
  - gentro 10y ago
    The amount of information available to westerners about the Chinese economy is pretty pitiful. Here in the U.S. there's like four or five talking points that echo around the media about the Chinese economy and those are the only tidbits people bring up. I've seen a few NHK documentaries about China. Kudos to them for chasing down interesting angles.
  - zhte415 10y ago
    Bike sharing apps are interesting in they can generate more income via interest on the deposits held by users with them than they generate in income.
  - emiliobumachar 10y ago
    Wow, the bike rental app is awesome. Do you know how they prevent theft?
  - KingMob 10y ago
    Ng may be right, and the article suggests a massive upsurge in papers in the last 3-4 years, but I'm dubious about quality, if the AI field is anything like neuroscience was. When I was back in grad school, I worked with a prominent Dutch researcher who routinely saw his papers translated into Chinese and re-published by Chinese authors as their own. At first, it drove him crazy, and he tried to get them to stop, issue retractions, etc. But he eventually learned to roll with it. The people involved may have had excellent careers at home, but were contributing no new knowledge, and just taking up resources.
- kirashogun 10y ago
  Maybe it's because Japan has been doing it since Meiji restoration which you might want note happened a tad earlier than post war. Looks like someone is still stuck on the first stage, denial. Please stay there since it has no relevance to reality.
- da02 10y ago
  You're right: there should have been more innovation by now. I withdraw my comment. (There should have at least been a few Akio Morita's by now.)
  - kirashogun 10y ago
    Wow you are easily convinced. Still stuck living in the 80s? Japan is basically finished at the moment. When's the last time the Sony brand meant something other than meh. Heck even the Korean are eating Japan alive. Not meant to bash Japan as I like the country the food, literature and I speak the language but facts are facts. This is not saying China's success is guaranteed but to compare it to Japan while ignoring the fact Japan started about 120 years earlier give it take and didn't have a wildly arrogant and corrupt Qing government, didn't have incompetent woman at the helm such as CiXi, didn't go through stupidest human experiment on earth called communism while destroying a generation of intellectuals is a bit ignorant. Maybe if we extend a bit beyond Meiji and go for 4000 years, you will find Japan's history stops at 100 AD due to lack of a writing system until they imported Chinese. Now if I was a betting man, given what China has achieved since 1978, I would say there's a good chance China will surprise every western frog stuck in their well.

matz1 10y ago

Also not surprising that one of the most effective way to good at something is to imitate how the expert do it.