5 ms·

This battle was lost decades ago, along with semantic markup and needing to enable Javascript to see any text. I don't like it either, but the market took the s

by pekk 10y ago

This battle was lost decades ago, along with semantic markup and needing to enable Javascript to see any text. I don't like it either, but the market took the shortest available path to what it was seeking and now there is no way anyone will roll it back.

pjmlp 10y ago
Yes there is, iOS, Android and UWP.
- TuringTest 10y ago
  How well are Android and iOS running in your desktop?
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    You forgot UWP from my list, and that runs just fine. As for desktop as such, my tablets are also fine with an external keyboard and the right set of native apps.
    - TuringTest 10y ago
      I deliberately didn't ask about UWP because then I would have had to ask "how well does UWP work on a Unix desktop".
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        Not everyone cares about UNIX desktops, specially looking at changes at Apple and their sales.
        TuringTest 10y ago
        When the topic discussed is software that can run on any platform, you have to care about UNIX desktop, otherwise you're cheating - or at least not providing a solution to the problem as was stated.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        No, the topic being discussed is "Browsers won't and should never have the full capabilities of native APIs. It's certain that many more applications will shift into web apps, but there are limits to what I'll want my browser to do." Which given the increase in mobile OS across the planet and their use of native apps, is something I wish will turn the tide.
        TuringTest 10y ago
        Once you run WebAssembly as a virtual machine providing a core API without a windowing system, it barely counts as a browser anymore. There's nothing in its essence that makes it different from the virtual machines in Java or C# or Python, other than having several alternate working implementations, available in every device that runs a modern browser (true, the latest wouldn't count as "native", but nothing stops you from running a headless WebAssembly instance directly on the metal without the intermediate application layer). The solutions you proposed (iOS, Android and UWP) may count as native, but they definitely don't count as "universal" in the same way that WebAssembly would.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        There is a big difference from all other VMs, a lowest common denominator UI/UX across all devices, even the JVM does better in regards to integration with the host OS. This has not changed since the HTML5 is going to change the world kind of thing, and I doubt WebAssembly will change that. Simple stuff like Web Components are still pretty much a Chrome thing and WIP everywhere else, let alone more specific OS APIs.
        TuringTest 10y ago
        Uh? Why would that make it any different from providing an "official" GUI API with the virtual machine, like Java Swing and MS XAML (or whatever Microsoft calls its current View stack nowadays)? Are you talking about implementations not being there (yet, though that could change with time) or is there a fundamental difference in the platform architecture that I'm unaware of?

by pekk 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

Yes there is, iOS, Android and UWP.

TuringTest 10y ago
How well are Android and iOS running in your desktop?
- pjmlp 10y ago
  You forgot UWP from my list, and that runs just fine. As for desktop as such, my tablets are also fine with an external keyboard and the right set of native apps.
  - TuringTest 10y ago
    I deliberately didn't ask about UWP because then I would have had to ask "how well does UWP work on a Unix desktop".
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Not everyone cares about UNIX desktops, specially looking at changes at Apple and their sales.
      - TuringTest 10y ago
        When the topic discussed is software that can run on any platform, you have to care about UNIX desktop, otherwise you're cheating - or at least not providing a solution to the problem as was stated.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        No, the topic being discussed is "Browsers won't and should never have the full capabilities of native APIs. It's certain that many more applications will shift into web apps, but there are limits to what I'll want my browser to do." Which given the increase in mobile OS across the planet and their use of native apps, is something I wish will turn the tide.
        TuringTest 10y ago
        Once you run WebAssembly as a virtual machine providing a core API without a windowing system, it barely counts as a browser anymore. There's nothing in its essence that makes it different from the virtual machines in Java or C# or Python, other than having several alternate working implementations, available in every device that runs a modern browser (true, the latest wouldn't count as "native", but nothing stops you from running a headless WebAssembly instance directly on the metal without the intermediate application layer). The solutions you proposed (iOS, Android and UWP) may count as native, but they definitely don't count as "universal" in the same way that WebAssembly would.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        There is a big difference from all other VMs, a lowest common denominator UI/UX across all devices, even the JVM does better in regards to integration with the host OS. This has not changed since the HTML5 is going to change the world kind of thing, and I doubt WebAssembly will change that. Simple stuff like Web Components are still pretty much a Chrome thing and WIP everywhere else, let alone more specific OS APIs.
        TuringTest 10y ago
        Uh? Why would that make it any different from providing an "official" GUI API with the virtual machine, like Java Swing and MS XAML (or whatever Microsoft calls its current View stack nowadays)? Are you talking about implementations not being there (yet, though that could change with time) or is there a fundamental difference in the platform architecture that I'm unaware of?