3 ms·

Haha, yeah, though to be fair I think we should build that particular handle on everything and train it appropriately, while still training spin recovery. Airfr

Haha, yeah, though to be fair I think we should build that particular handle on everything and train it appropriately, while still training spin recovery. Airframe parachutes are a great idea.

mikeash 10y ago
I love the idea of the parachute. But it seems like the sort of thing that ought to be a backup if you can't recover, not the one and only thing you do. I'm not a flight instructor, but I have to imagine that inadvertent spin entry is something student pilots might do from time to time, in something that can spin. (I did all of my initial training in craft that refused to spin with my weight in them, so it's a bit theoretical for me. I did get spin training later on in something that would actually spin, and I'm glad I did.)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- base698 10y ago
  They don't help if you're low enough: https://youtu.be/CRXUZnsST5c https://youtu.be/CRXUZnsST5c
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Ugh. That's ugly. The history behind that crash is too.
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      Yeah; that was a CF all around. Pilot under some stress, air traffic control making it increasingly (and unnecessarily, IMO) worse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEVLqRIqd84 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEVLqRIqd84 Pilot in command ultimately responsible, but damn, ATC did her no favors that day.
- mannykannot 10y ago
  I completely agree with your last-resort comment, but the discussion has made me curious about Cirrus' spin-entry and spin-recovery behavior. After an admittedly cursory search, I get the impression that in neither case do they behave badly. The problem here is that the Cirrus' spin certification is predicated on the parachute being the only method of recovery. The article below offers several justifications for not getting the aircraft certified on the basis of standard recovery procedures, which seem to boil down to the principle that the rule 'pop the chute as soon as you are in trouble' is most likely to reduce fatalities. From the point of view of pilot training school economics, the cost of a certain number of write-offs must be balanced against a smaller, but non-zero, probability of fatal spin accidents (beyond the number that not even a parachute would save.) http://www.kineticlearning.com/pilots_world/safety/06_05/article_06_03.html http://www.kineticlearning.com/pilots_world/safety/06_05/art...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

Haha, yeah, though to be fair I think we should build that particular handle on everything and train it appropriately, while still training spin recovery. Airframe parachutes are a great idea.

mikeash 10y ago

I love the idea of the parachute. But it seems like the sort of thing that ought to be a backup if you can't recover, not the one and only thing you do. I'm not a flight instructor, but I have to imagine that inadvertent spin entry is something student pilots might do from time to time, in something that can spin. (I did all of my initial training in craft that refused to spin with my weight in them, so it's a bit theoretical for me. I did get spin training later on in something that would actually spin, and I'm glad I did.)

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
base698 10y ago
They don't help if you're low enough: https://youtu.be/CRXUZnsST5c https://youtu.be/CRXUZnsST5c
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Ugh. That's ugly. The history behind that crash is too.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Yeah; that was a CF all around. Pilot under some stress, air traffic control making it increasingly (and unnecessarily, IMO) worse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEVLqRIqd84 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEVLqRIqd84 Pilot in command ultimately responsible, but damn, ATC did her no favors that day.
mannykannot 10y ago
I completely agree with your last-resort comment, but the discussion has made me curious about Cirrus' spin-entry and spin-recovery behavior. After an admittedly cursory search, I get the impression that in neither case do they behave badly. The problem here is that the Cirrus' spin certification is predicated on the parachute being the only method of recovery. The article below offers several justifications for not getting the aircraft certified on the basis of standard recovery procedures, which seem to boil down to the principle that the rule 'pop the chute as soon as you are in trouble' is most likely to reduce fatalities. From the point of view of pilot training school economics, the cost of a certain number of write-offs must be balanced against a smaller, but non-zero, probability of fatal spin accidents (beyond the number that not even a parachute would save.) http://www.kineticlearning.com/pilots_world/safety/06_05/article_06_03.html http://www.kineticlearning.com/pilots_world/safety/06_05/art...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]