4 ms·

> I live in a society where the white male has power What power do I have as a white male? Please be specific. Don't show how I'm treated better than others,

by adekok 10y ago

> I live in a society where the white male has power What power do I have as a white male? Please be specific. Don't show how I'm treated better than others, show how I have power. I've never shown up at a job interview unqualified... and been told "Yup, you get the job because of your skin color and your genitals". While there are systemic racial differences in the US, they're not always what you think. Which race has the highest average income? Is that because that race is part of the majority? It's not. So... how come if society is here to keep "white men" in power, that Asian-Americans have the highest average income? Are they the secret power behind the throne? [1] Well, no one on their right mind would say so. Yet people are happy to claim that there's some kind of conspiracy to keep another race in power. I dunno... I've never been contacted and asked to join the conspiracy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_...

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
Let's see... For starters, If you're convicted of a crime, you are much more likely to receive a shorter prison sentence than a minority. The sentencing difference between whites caught with cocaine and blacks caught with crack is an example of this. In general, when interacting with law enforcement for whatever reason (traffic stop, suspicion of drug possession of marijuana, etc.), you are much more likely to receive a warning and not be arrested or given a ticket compared to a minority. Also, when driving across the panhandle of Texas, the police are less likely to stop you. Whenever I've driven through there, police take one look at me and like clockwork, pull me over, often times calling their K9 unit out. On dating websites, you're more likely to appeal to more women than a minority. And if you date outside of your race, the parents of your significant other are more likely be more accepting of you than someone who is black. If you were accepted to a prestigious university or received a job offer for a lucrative position, you wouldn't have to endure people questioning your abilities and whispering "He's only here because of affirmative action." I've experienced this despite scoring above the mean in all relevant categories. If you want a recent example of this type of behavior on HackerNews, look here and ctrl-f for gydfi: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13779165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13779165 > "Yup, you get the job because of your skin color and your genitals". I don't think anyone has ever said this specifically. I believe that you're falling into the same trap as the individual that I pointed out above, assuming that you are at a disadvantage for a job because you don't get extra consideration for being a woman or a minority. There is no advantage. In fact, it is still a disadvantage. Even in Silicon Valley, a woman gets paid less for doing the same work as their male colleagues. If you want a recent example, look at the revelations coming out of the sinking ship that is Uber. That not withstanding, In my experience as part of the team that does hiring where I work (tech company), I find other members show a bias for those who resemble their culture, that culture being people familiar with dank memes and who play video games. They don't realize that when choosing their preferred candidate that they have a preference. It doesn't mean they are racist, sexist, etc. It just means that they have a cognitive bias that they may not be aware of. > Yet people are happy to claim that there's some kind of conspiracy to keep another race in power. I dunno... I've never been contacted and asked to join the conspiracy. It's not a conspiracy headed by some cartoonish, mustache twirling villain. It is just the historical remnant of a time when the social order was segregated by race. Just because the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's does not magically wash away the effects of institutionalized racism. Institutions take time to change. It's certainly better than it was, but it's not perfect.
- adekok 10y ago
  I asked Don't show how I'm treated better than others, show how I have power. Your argument is largely that I may get treated better than others. How, exactly, does that show I have power, as the GP comment suggested? And did you read my other comment? The overwhelming better treatment is due to sex, not gender. Being male means you're treated much more poorly than being female. Being a minority is just (nasty) icing on the cake. > Even in Silicon Valley, a woman gets paid less for doing the same work as their male colleagues. You are are that that's been illegal since the late 1960's, right? If you want some comments as to where those "gaps" come from, see Thomas Sowell, who's been deconstructing that gap since the 1980's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 > It just means that they have a cognitive bias that they may not be aware of. Sure... but how does that give me, the (alleged) recipient of such bias... power? How do I use that bias to become one of the .0001% of society which is ruling the country? The short answer (of course) is I don't. Saying I am powerful because share the same skin color and gender as politicians is just a ludicrous statement to make. > Just because the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's does not magically wash away the effects of institutionalized racism. Institutions take time to change Well, they take a short period of time to change if the people involved are willing. See the changes in the LA police attitude since the Rodney King riots. It's not perfect, but it does seem a lot better; And you're also discounting my comments about Asian-Americans. If society is so controlled by The White Male, and is so racist, how come Asian-Americans are doing better than white people on average? Is The White Male secretly biased in favor of Asians? Or is something else going on? I think the answer here is at least in part poverty. If you're poor, it doesn't really matter what your skin color is. You get treated poorly by everyone. And it's damned hard to get out of the trap of poverty. That fact alone explains why the descendants of poor ex-slaves have a hard time getting ahead. Their families have been poor for 130 years... getting ahead is hard.
  - FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
    > > I live in a society where the white male has power What power do I have as a white male? You're being a bit disingenuous. I don't know if this is purposeful or not. Would we agree the Sunni had power in Iraq under Saddam and today the Shia have power? In China, is it far to say that the Han have power? That doesn't mean that every Shia today in Iraq has power. I was mainly trying to rebut your argument that minorities and women receive favorable treatment in society due to policies such as affirmative action and relaying that to you with details from my own personal experiences. > Your argument is largely that I may get treated better than others. How, exactly, does that show I have power, as the GP comment suggested? You don't take the logical leap. Receiving preferential treatment affords one greater mobility whether it is in the social, professional, or administrative realm. Accordingly, I think we can both agree that being treated better gives one greater access to power, increasing the probability that you can exercise power. I cannot prove how you specifically have greater power because I don't know you. > And did you read my other comment? The overwhelming better treatment is due to sex, not gender. Being male means you're treated much more poorly than being female. Being a minority is just (nasty) icing on the cake. I showed you a specific example on this very site on how women are not treated better, it is the opposite. Jennifer Widom's worthiness for being Engineering Dean at Stanford was questioned, despite her impressive credentials being just a google search away. I also don't know what you're insinuating by calling minorities a "nasty" icing on the cake. > If you want some comments as to where those "gaps" come from, see Thomas Sowell, who's been deconstructing that gap since the 1980's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 He makes a fair argument over the traditional wage gap but some of the conclusions he comes to are a bit wonky. Especially the argument he makes that if women make . 75 cents on the dollar, firms would be falling over themselves to hire the cheaper labor. He makes the assumption that hiring decisions are based chiefly on getting the most for your dollar when it is somewhat obvious that people hire for individuals that they get along with. I was specifically referring to today's climate. Again, I offered an anecdote. If you actually care about the truth, not what anyone else says, if there is a woman where you work in the same position as you what she makes. (Side note) I actually have a degree in Economics from Stanford and had the opportunity to chat with him while meeting with one of my professors (John Cogan). I don't take academic economists seriously. It's good for explaining the broad strokes of history, but it just does not accurately model human behavior. As a field, it's closer to philosophy than science and often times it is treated like a religion. I'll be brief as to why,..(1)Economic models make simplifying assumptions without explicitly stating them, the rational economic actor being chief among them (2) Economics theory is better described as hypothesis since hardly any vidence by way of experiment is ever presented (3) Preponderance of a cult of personality > Sure... but how does that give me, the (alleged) recipient of such bias... power? How do I use that bias to become one of the .0001% of society which is ruling the country? I'm not making any claims about your specific level of power. It's the .00001% as you state, By definition, you don't get in the club ONLY because of your skin color. Being born to the right family helps (I'll leave to you the demographics of those families), If you aren't born into it, you need not only a certain ability, but the will to exercise power. I You do have a greater chance of getting into that rarified group than a woman or a minority, who face additional hurdles. How much weight to give them, I don't know. > If society is so controlled by The White Male, and is so racist, how come Asian-Americans are doing better than white people on average? Is The White Male secretly biased in favor of Asians? Or is something else going on? > I think the answer here is at least in part poverty. If you're poor, it doesn't really matter what your skin color is. You get treated poorly by everyone. And it's damned hard to get out of the trap of poverty. That fact alone explains why the descendants of poor ex-slaves have a hard time getting ahead. Their families have been poor for 130 years... getting ahead is hard. You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, making assumptions about things I never said, and veering into the political. I believe that we agree on most points. All I'm trying to say is that women and minorities do not get preferential treatment. Poverty is likely the most significant factor in mobility, but not the only. People do not cross the street when they see a group of asian teens coming towards them. People like me do face the type of cognitive bias that causes others to go on the other side of the street when they see me approaching.

by adekok 10y ago

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

Let's see... For starters, If you're convicted of a crime, you are much more likely to receive a shorter prison sentence than a minority. The sentencing difference between whites caught with cocaine and blacks caught with crack is an example of this. In general, when interacting with law enforcement for whatever reason (traffic stop, suspicion of drug possession of marijuana, etc.), you are much more likely to receive a warning and not be arrested or given a ticket compared to a minority. Also, when driving across the panhandle of Texas, the police are less likely to stop you. Whenever I've driven through there, police take one look at me and like clockwork, pull me over, often times calling their K9 unit out. On dating websites, you're more likely to appeal to more women than a minority. And if you date outside of your race, the parents of your significant other are more likely be more accepting of you than someone who is black. If you were accepted to a prestigious university or received a job offer for a lucrative position, you wouldn't have to endure people questioning your abilities and whispering "He's only here because of affirmative action." I've experienced this despite scoring above the mean in all relevant categories. If you want a recent example of this type of behavior on HackerNews, look here and ctrl-f for gydfi: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13779165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13779165 > "Yup, you get the job because of your skin color and your genitals". I don't think anyone has ever said this specifically. I believe that you're falling into the same trap as the individual that I pointed out above, assuming that you are at a disadvantage for a job because you don't get extra consideration for being a woman or a minority. There is no advantage. In fact, it is still a disadvantage. Even in Silicon Valley, a woman gets paid less for doing the same work as their male colleagues. If you want a recent example, look at the revelations coming out of the sinking ship that is Uber. That not withstanding, In my experience as part of the team that does hiring where I work (tech company), I find other members show a bias for those who resemble their culture, that culture being people familiar with dank memes and who play video games. They don't realize that when choosing their preferred candidate that they have a preference. It doesn't mean they are racist, sexist, etc. It just means that they have a cognitive bias that they may not be aware of. > Yet people are happy to claim that there's some kind of conspiracy to keep another race in power. I dunno... I've never been contacted and asked to join the conspiracy. It's not a conspiracy headed by some cartoonish, mustache twirling villain. It is just the historical remnant of a time when the social order was segregated by race. Just because the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's does not magically wash away the effects of institutionalized racism. Institutions take time to change. It's certainly better than it was, but it's not perfect.

adekok 10y ago
I asked Don't show how I'm treated better than others, show how I have power. Your argument is largely that I may get treated better than others. How, exactly, does that show I have power, as the GP comment suggested? And did you read my other comment? The overwhelming better treatment is due to sex, not gender. Being male means you're treated much more poorly than being female. Being a minority is just (nasty) icing on the cake. > Even in Silicon Valley, a woman gets paid less for doing the same work as their male colleagues. You are are that that's been illegal since the late 1960's, right? If you want some comments as to where those "gaps" come from, see Thomas Sowell, who's been deconstructing that gap since the 1980's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 > It just means that they have a cognitive bias that they may not be aware of. Sure... but how does that give me, the (alleged) recipient of such bias... power? How do I use that bias to become one of the .0001% of society which is ruling the country? The short answer (of course) is I don't. Saying I am powerful because share the same skin color and gender as politicians is just a ludicrous statement to make. > Just because the civil rights act was passed in the 1960's does not magically wash away the effects of institutionalized racism. Institutions take time to change Well, they take a short period of time to change if the people involved are willing. See the changes in the LA police attitude since the Rodney King riots. It's not perfect, but it does seem a lot better; And you're also discounting my comments about Asian-Americans. If society is so controlled by The White Male, and is so racist, how come Asian-Americans are doing better than white people on average? Is The White Male secretly biased in favor of Asians? Or is something else going on? I think the answer here is at least in part poverty. If you're poor, it doesn't really matter what your skin color is. You get treated poorly by everyone. And it's damned hard to get out of the trap of poverty. That fact alone explains why the descendants of poor ex-slaves have a hard time getting ahead. Their families have been poor for 130 years... getting ahead is hard.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
  > > I live in a society where the white male has power What power do I have as a white male? You're being a bit disingenuous. I don't know if this is purposeful or not. Would we agree the Sunni had power in Iraq under Saddam and today the Shia have power? In China, is it far to say that the Han have power? That doesn't mean that every Shia today in Iraq has power. I was mainly trying to rebut your argument that minorities and women receive favorable treatment in society due to policies such as affirmative action and relaying that to you with details from my own personal experiences. > Your argument is largely that I may get treated better than others. How, exactly, does that show I have power, as the GP comment suggested? You don't take the logical leap. Receiving preferential treatment affords one greater mobility whether it is in the social, professional, or administrative realm. Accordingly, I think we can both agree that being treated better gives one greater access to power, increasing the probability that you can exercise power. I cannot prove how you specifically have greater power because I don't know you. > And did you read my other comment? The overwhelming better treatment is due to sex, not gender. Being male means you're treated much more poorly than being female. Being a minority is just (nasty) icing on the cake. I showed you a specific example on this very site on how women are not treated better, it is the opposite. Jennifer Widom's worthiness for being Engineering Dean at Stanford was questioned, despite her impressive credentials being just a google search away. I also don't know what you're insinuating by calling minorities a "nasty" icing on the cake. > If you want some comments as to where those "gaps" come from, see Thomas Sowell, who's been deconstructing that gap since the 1980's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pQ7KXv0o0 He makes a fair argument over the traditional wage gap but some of the conclusions he comes to are a bit wonky. Especially the argument he makes that if women make . 75 cents on the dollar, firms would be falling over themselves to hire the cheaper labor. He makes the assumption that hiring decisions are based chiefly on getting the most for your dollar when it is somewhat obvious that people hire for individuals that they get along with. I was specifically referring to today's climate. Again, I offered an anecdote. If you actually care about the truth, not what anyone else says, if there is a woman where you work in the same position as you what she makes. (Side note) I actually have a degree in Economics from Stanford and had the opportunity to chat with him while meeting with one of my professors (John Cogan). I don't take academic economists seriously. It's good for explaining the broad strokes of history, but it just does not accurately model human behavior. As a field, it's closer to philosophy than science and often times it is treated like a religion. I'll be brief as to why,..(1)Economic models make simplifying assumptions without explicitly stating them, the rational economic actor being chief among them (2) Economics theory is better described as hypothesis since hardly any vidence by way of experiment is ever presented (3) Preponderance of a cult of personality > Sure... but how does that give me, the (alleged) recipient of such bias... power? How do I use that bias to become one of the .0001% of society which is ruling the country? I'm not making any claims about your specific level of power. It's the .00001% as you state, By definition, you don't get in the club ONLY because of your skin color. Being born to the right family helps (I'll leave to you the demographics of those families), If you aren't born into it, you need not only a certain ability, but the will to exercise power. I You do have a greater chance of getting into that rarified group than a woman or a minority, who face additional hurdles. How much weight to give them, I don't know. > If society is so controlled by The White Male, and is so racist, how come Asian-Americans are doing better than white people on average? Is The White Male secretly biased in favor of Asians? Or is something else going on? > I think the answer here is at least in part poverty. If you're poor, it doesn't really matter what your skin color is. You get treated poorly by everyone. And it's damned hard to get out of the trap of poverty. That fact alone explains why the descendants of poor ex-slaves have a hard time getting ahead. Their families have been poor for 130 years... getting ahead is hard. You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, making assumptions about things I never said, and veering into the political. I believe that we agree on most points. All I'm trying to say is that women and minorities do not get preferential treatment. Poverty is likely the most significant factor in mobility, but not the only. People do not cross the street when they see a group of asian teens coming towards them. People like me do face the type of cognitive bias that causes others to go on the other side of the street when they see me approaching.