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This type of reaction is why the discussion has been polarised so much, in Europe and elsewhere. Instead of sticking on simple labels and well-worn claims of 'h

This type of reaction is why the discussion has been polarised so much, in Europe and elsewhere. Instead of sticking on simple labels and well-worn claims of 'hate speech' you'd do better to try to refute those statements with data. Let's try, shall we? The first statement was that 'European leaders have been importing millions'. Your simply deny this without any evidence to the contrary. The facts seem to point to the validity of the original claim, with Germany taking in more than a million migrants and refugees (these are two different categories) all by itself. Maybe it would have been closer to the truth to state 'around 1.5 million in a single year' instead of 'millions', but the original poster did not state that the claim was for a single year. All in all, the original claim has more validity than your flat-out denial. The second claim was that these migrants and refugees come from 'incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions'. You claim this to be 'aggressive against millions of people'. Let's dissect the original claim, starting with 'violent'. This needs no discussion, those regions are violent, this being one of the stated reasons for people to leave them in the first place. The middle-east is riddled with conflict, it is a volatile region. Syria and Iraq in particular stand out but it would be foolhardy to the extreme to try to claim the rest of the region is stable and peaceful. The next part of the statement is 'theocratic'. Taken literally this is only true for part of the region from which the migrants and refugees come. Iran is a theocracy, and Iran is where a large part of those claiming to be Afghans come from. Syria and Iraq are in themselves not theocracies but the regions claimed by IS/Daesh are. The African countries from which a large part of the migrants come are not theocracies, although most of them have an islamic majority. The claim of illiteracy applies to part of the countries from which migrants arrived to Europe. Literacy in Afghanistan is 28% - that is literacy, so the illiteracy rate is 72% [1]. Other regions fare better but compared to the near 100% literacy rate in western and northern Europe they fall short. Literacy in Africa varies wildly but none of the African countries from which migrants arrive nears 100% [2]. The third part of the original claim was that these countries are 'regressive'. This is a very subjective term and as such can not be dealt with like the other claims. It could be applied to some of the countries from which refugees (Syria, Iraq) and migrants (Somalia, Afghanistan) arrived as those countries did regress from stability into chaos due to the collapse of governmental and societal institutions. Now to the last part of the original statement, the one which states that 'European politicians don't seem to give much of a shit about Europeans'. You call this 'hate speech', but that is simply wrong and one of the more damaging parts of your claims. Hate speech is one of those labels often used by those who wish to quell discussion (others are 'racism', 'islamophobia', 'xenophobia', 'fascism', etc.). The term 'hate speech' is relatively well-defined as being "speech which attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation" [3]. You apply this term to a claim of politicians not looking out for their constituency. This is a total misapplication of the term, using it in such a way actually devalues it by implying that politicians who follow their own agenda (which many of them do) are no worse than, say, Westboro baptist church supporters toting claims of whatever horror being some gods punishment for homosexuality. Do you stand by your reaction? [1] http://www.indexmundi.com/map/?v=39&r=me&l=en http://www.indexmundi.com/map/?v=39&r=me&l=en [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate#/media/File:World_map_of_countries_by_literacy_rate.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

lispm 10y ago
Germany did not 'import' them. Germany gave refugess a shelter, protected by the German constitution. Germany did not import millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan. Attributes 'such as'. 'politician' is an attribute such as. Tactics like Goebbels who called them Volksverräter and Volksfeinde. These are the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda: useless 'semantics' when the intend is clear: a smear campaign against politicians.
- Yetanfou 10y ago
  Germany 'imported' migrants by making it well-known around the world that they'd accept anyone who claimed to be from Syria. This message was heard by traffickers who passed it on to their victims by claiming they'd be welcomed with open arms by Merkel. Those victims - or the family of the victims who sent one of their sons to serve as 'anchor' - paid large sums to the traffickers to smuggle them into the Schengen zone, from where they could make their way into Germany or Sweden. Who claimed that Germany 'imported millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan'? I do not see that claim anywhere but in your last message. Bringing up Goebbels in a politically tainted discussion is counterproductive unless there is a clear cause to do so. In this case there is no such cause. Making claims of something being 'the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda' is even less helpful as all it does is polarise the discussion. Leave out the labels, the epithets, stop comparing with Nazi tactics. If you don't think you can 'win' without resorting to such means there is a good chance you don't have anything useful to add to the discussion.
  - lispm 10y ago
    Germany did not make anything like that 'well-known' around the world. Refugees have been fleeing for some time from Syria, especially when the war escalated. People from North Africa increasingly come to Europe, especially because the events of the last decade: war, collapse of order, economic problems, ... Claiming that all these people come to Germany, because we imported or invite them is just a lie. The wave of refugees coming to Germany from Syria was especially, because no one else helped them, just when the war escalated. Some EU countries don't get enough help dealing with refugees and others simply refuse to provide help. In the past German politics wasn't very helpful either and the problem slowly escalated over time. But one of the root causes are failed politics of regime change in middle east and north africa. 1, 2 or 3 million refugees in Germany is not the biggest problem. The much bigger problem is ending the war in Syria, which is to a large part caused or fueled by countries like the US, Russia, Iran, the Saudis, ... If the war ends, many refugees could return home... which would take years. You brought up the illiteracy rate of Afghanistan, not me. Don't whine when you spread right-wing propaganda that you sound like Goebbels. That's all from Nazi propaganda: Überfremdung durch Massen von Untermenschen, Politiker als Volksverräter, ...

lispm 10y ago

Germany did not 'import' them. Germany gave refugess a shelter, protected by the German constitution. Germany did not import millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan. Attributes 'such as'. 'politician' is an attribute such as. Tactics like Goebbels who called them Volksverräter and Volksfeinde. These are the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda: useless 'semantics' when the intend is clear: a smear campaign against politicians.

Yetanfou 10y ago
Germany 'imported' migrants by making it well-known around the world that they'd accept anyone who claimed to be from Syria. This message was heard by traffickers who passed it on to their victims by claiming they'd be welcomed with open arms by Merkel. Those victims - or the family of the victims who sent one of their sons to serve as 'anchor' - paid large sums to the traffickers to smuggle them into the Schengen zone, from where they could make their way into Germany or Sweden. Who claimed that Germany 'imported millions of illiterate people from Afghanistan'? I do not see that claim anywhere but in your last message. Bringing up Goebbels in a politically tainted discussion is counterproductive unless there is a clear cause to do so. In this case there is no such cause. Making claims of something being 'the usual tactics by the right wing propaganda' is even less helpful as all it does is polarise the discussion. Leave out the labels, the epithets, stop comparing with Nazi tactics. If you don't think you can 'win' without resorting to such means there is a good chance you don't have anything useful to add to the discussion.
- lispm 10y ago
  Germany did not make anything like that 'well-known' around the world. Refugees have been fleeing for some time from Syria, especially when the war escalated. People from North Africa increasingly come to Europe, especially because the events of the last decade: war, collapse of order, economic problems, ... Claiming that all these people come to Germany, because we imported or invite them is just a lie. The wave of refugees coming to Germany from Syria was especially, because no one else helped them, just when the war escalated. Some EU countries don't get enough help dealing with refugees and others simply refuse to provide help. In the past German politics wasn't very helpful either and the problem slowly escalated over time. But one of the root causes are failed politics of regime change in middle east and north africa. 1, 2 or 3 million refugees in Germany is not the biggest problem. The much bigger problem is ending the war in Syria, which is to a large part caused or fueled by countries like the US, Russia, Iran, the Saudis, ... If the war ends, many refugees could return home... which would take years. You brought up the illiteracy rate of Afghanistan, not me. Don't whine when you spread right-wing propaganda that you sound like Goebbels. That's all from Nazi propaganda: Überfremdung durch Massen von Untermenschen, Politiker als Volksverräter, ...