4 ms·

Yeah, and this is an incredibly dangerous thing to do too, for both partners really. For the woman, she's basically giving up any hope of having a real career,

by Arizhel 10y ago

Yeah, and this is an incredibly dangerous thing to do too, for both partners really. For the woman, she's basically giving up any hope of having a real career, ever, and consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. She'll never have a serious career after that. Worse, she's making herself entirely financially dependent on the man. What happens when the marriage falls apart, as it does in 50% of marriages? Now she's got no income, no skills, and the best she can hope for is to really fuck over the ex-husband with child support and alimony. Even with that, it's not going to be that easy to live, and she'll have a lower standard of living than before. The same goes for the husband; with a wife that doesn't work, he's likely going to do very badly in divorce court, and lose a large chunk of his income to monthly payments to her. The whole setup is fraught with peril. Finally, what kind of woman has no career goals? Usually one with little or no education. Educated men usually aren't interested in such women, unless they're both highly conservative and religious.

gnaritas 10y ago
> Yeah, and this is an incredibly dangerous thing to do too, for both partners really. For the woman, she's basically giving up any hope of having a real career, ever, and consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. She'll never have a serious career after that. Worse, she's making herself entirely financially dependent on the man. Absolutely true, but also absolutely the traditional and current norm. > The whole setup is fraught with peril. Yup, but that's why it's a commitment, it's risky for both parties but hugely beneficial if it works. > Finally, what kind of woman has no career goals? Usually one with little or no education. Educated men usually aren't interested in such women, unless they're both highly conservative and religious. Well about half the population is conservative, and about 80% of the population is religious, so that means the majority of men are interested in such women. This is hardly surprising as housewife is actually traditionally the norm, the notion of educated women earning money is rather new historically and isn't something society has really fully accepted yet.
- dpark 10y ago
  > Absolutely true, but also absolutely the traditional and current norm. Traditional? Yes. Current? No. https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2011/women/ https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2011/women/ In 2009, 59 percent of working-age women in the United States were in the labor force. Well over half of working-age women are employed. That means the percentage of women who would qualify as stay at home moms is less than 41%. Likely well under, between 23 an 29 from a quick look. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/percentage-of-stay-at-home-moms-on-the-rise-after-decades-of-decline/ http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/percentage-of-stay...
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    > Traditional? Yes. Current? No. You're mixing two different statements. Look at what I said was current norm, being dependent when married and trying to have kids. So your stats don't disprove anything I said. > Well over half of working-age women are employed. That means the percentage of women who would qualify as stay at home moms is less than 41%. Likely well under, between 23 an 29 from a quick look. Not relevant to what I said, at all. I didn't say the majority of women are stay at home moms, I said they're financially dependent on their husbands. You can be a working women and still be uneducated and financially dependent. These are not mutually exclusive things.
    - dpark 10y ago
      I don't see what I'm mixing up. You said that the current norm is a woman "basically giving up any hope of having a real career, ever, and consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. She'll never have a serious career after that. Worse, she's making herself entirely financially dependent on the man." (Yes, these are not your words, but they're the words that you quoted when you said it was "absolutely" the current norm.) If by "norm" you mean this still happens a lot, sure, but that's not what's actually the norm. The norm is to be part of the labor force.
      - gnaritas 10y ago
imh 10y ago
>... consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. >Finally, what kind of woman has no career goals? Usually one with little or no education. Educated men usually aren't interested in such women, unless they're both highly conservative and religious. Holy cow this is the most judgemental attitude I've heard in a long time. You make being interested in raising a family full time sound like a relic of some ignorant past. Yeah it's a career killer, but the rest of that is just being disrespectful. It's not about having no career goals, it's about prioritizing other things above them.
- watwut 10y ago
  You call it disrespectful, I call it honest. Even in the past when staying at home was normal, people did not respected those women and looked down on them. Pretending otherwise is just lie. I do not know whether the author of the comment is women or men, but described reality of it quite accurately - including what the women goes through and thinks about herself as she has to give up everything except the family. It is also incredibly lonely, you can hang around friends if they made similar choice, but just hanging around chatting is not satisfying for most people. It is not just about prioritizing other things then career - plenty of working parents including fathers do that. It is giving up chance to be competitive in pretty much anything and giving up chance for any personal achievement. All those experiences that goes with having meaningful job, successes, failures, feeling like you are getting better, felling like you do something not everyone can do, all that things that gives people confidence are out. Just about the only possible achievement is when your kids are successful, but it is better for them if you don't live your live through them. You have to have special kind of personality to like that and only some women are like that. As to education: staying home is more attractive proposition for women without education, because low education jobs are shitty and employers treat you badly.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    You call it disrespectful, I call it honest. Even in the past when staying at home was normal, people did not respected those women and looked down on them. Pretending otherwise is just lie. There are plenty of people like that alive today and to say that nobody respects them is not true. People are different.
watwut 10y ago
Interesting that this comment was downvoted so much. It accurately describes the reality of the setup.
nec4b 10y ago
As if being a housewife is an easy and unchallenging job. I only wonder how those intellectually suppressed women managed to raise such intellectual superman like yourself? I hope for your sake that your bubble will break sooner that later.

by Arizhel 10y ago

gnaritas 10y ago

> Yeah, and this is an incredibly dangerous thing to do too, for both partners really. For the woman, she's basically giving up any hope of having a real career, ever, and consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. She'll never have a serious career after that. Worse, she's making herself entirely financially dependent on the man. Absolutely true, but also absolutely the traditional and current norm. > The whole setup is fraught with peril. Yup, but that's why it's a commitment, it's risky for both parties but hugely beneficial if it works. > Finally, what kind of woman has no career goals? Usually one with little or no education. Educated men usually aren't interested in such women, unless they're both highly conservative and religious. Well about half the population is conservative, and about 80% of the population is religious, so that means the majority of men are interested in such women. This is hardly surprising as housewife is actually traditionally the norm, the notion of educated women earning money is rather new historically and isn't something society has really fully accepted yet.

dpark 10y ago
> Absolutely true, but also absolutely the traditional and current norm. Traditional? Yes. Current? No. https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2011/women/ https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2011/women/ In 2009, 59 percent of working-age women in the United States were in the labor force. Well over half of working-age women are employed. That means the percentage of women who would qualify as stay at home moms is less than 41%. Likely well under, between 23 an 29 from a quick look. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/percentage-of-stay-at-home-moms-on-the-rise-after-decades-of-decline/ http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/percentage-of-stay...
- gnaritas 10y ago
  > Traditional? Yes. Current? No. You're mixing two different statements. Look at what I said was current norm, being dependent when married and trying to have kids. So your stats don't disprove anything I said. > Well over half of working-age women are employed. That means the percentage of women who would qualify as stay at home moms is less than 41%. Likely well under, between 23 an 29 from a quick look. Not relevant to what I said, at all. I didn't say the majority of women are stay at home moms, I said they're financially dependent on their husbands. You can be a working women and still be uneducated and financially dependent. These are not mutually exclusive things.
  - dpark 10y ago
    I don't see what I'm mixing up. You said that the current norm is a woman "basically giving up any hope of having a real career, ever, and consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. She'll never have a serious career after that. Worse, she's making herself entirely financially dependent on the man." (Yes, these are not your words, but they're the words that you quoted when you said it was "absolutely" the current norm.) If by "norm" you mean this still happens a lot, sure, but that's not what's actually the norm. The norm is to be part of the labor force.
    - gnaritas 10y ago

imh 10y ago

>... consigning herself to being nothing more than a "housewife" for her best adult years. >Finally, what kind of woman has no career goals? Usually one with little or no education. Educated men usually aren't interested in such women, unless they're both highly conservative and religious. Holy cow this is the most judgemental attitude I've heard in a long time. You make being interested in raising a family full time sound like a relic of some ignorant past. Yeah it's a career killer, but the rest of that is just being disrespectful. It's not about having no career goals, it's about prioritizing other things above them.

watwut 10y ago
You call it disrespectful, I call it honest. Even in the past when staying at home was normal, people did not respected those women and looked down on them. Pretending otherwise is just lie. I do not know whether the author of the comment is women or men, but described reality of it quite accurately - including what the women goes through and thinks about herself as she has to give up everything except the family. It is also incredibly lonely, you can hang around friends if they made similar choice, but just hanging around chatting is not satisfying for most people. It is not just about prioritizing other things then career - plenty of working parents including fathers do that. It is giving up chance to be competitive in pretty much anything and giving up chance for any personal achievement. All those experiences that goes with having meaningful job, successes, failures, feeling like you are getting better, felling like you do something not everyone can do, all that things that gives people confidence are out. Just about the only possible achievement is when your kids are successful, but it is better for them if you don't live your live through them. You have to have special kind of personality to like that and only some women are like that. As to education: staying home is more attractive proposition for women without education, because low education jobs are shitty and employers treat you badly.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  You call it disrespectful, I call it honest. Even in the past when staying at home was normal, people did not respected those women and looked down on them. Pretending otherwise is just lie. There are plenty of people like that alive today and to say that nobody respects them is not true. People are different.

watwut 10y ago

Interesting that this comment was downvoted so much. It accurately describes the reality of the setup.

nec4b 10y ago

As if being a housewife is an easy and unchallenging job. I only wonder how those intellectually suppressed women managed to raise such intellectual superman like yourself? I hope for your sake that your bubble will break sooner that later.