4 ms·

Yeah? What makes you say that?

by castis 10y ago

lend000 10y ago
The EU is composed of seven major institutions, only one of which has direct representation by voters (the EU parliament), and the number of representatives of each country is (roughly) proportional to their size, so any given voter of a small EU country has effectively zero representation. The EU is very far from a democratic, representative system, and yet it hold tremendous power over its 'constituents.' Not to mention the irresponsible ECB policies and fiscal safety net draining the few remaining EU countries with any wealth... I'd like to see more state sovereignty and individual sovereignty return to Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_... The freedom of trade and movement that the EU brought is great, but I suspect that for the most part, that can be negotiated without a 'super-government' making the rules.
- Findeton 10y ago
  The problem is that the EU is organized in such a way that it is at an intermediate stage between it being just a bunch of different nations and it being something similar to the USA. We need more EU and less nationalism to become something similar to the USA, we need a bigger EU government and smaller nations governments. The EU government is about 1% of the GDP and the nations governments are 50%, we need to reverse those numbers. Of course I agree that the EU is not very democratic right, we also need to change that.
  - blibble 10y ago
    > The EU government is about 1% of the GDP this is not actually true, the way the EU has been setup is very clever: it does not attribute a large proportion of costs directly incurred by its policies to itself. when powers are transferred to the EU, the national institutions used to implement those powers (that previously served the national government) remain, but now implement the EU's legislative program, but the costs incurred doing so are still paid by the national treasuries. prime examples are civil aviation, food safety and agriculture policy. these departments are essentially operated by and for the EU, yet the expenses of those departments are not correctly attributed to the EU. if these expenses were correctly attributed for that 1% would likely be 3-4x higher, and people would be a lot more upset.
  - lend000 10y ago
    > the EU is organized in such a way that it is at an intermediate stage between it being just a bunch of different nations and it being something similar to the USA There's certainly an argument for that, but I would instead argue that the US states would benefit from being independent countries (this is not as compelling as dissolving the EU, though; we're not at that point yet). The primary motivator is diseconomies of scale -- these huge organizations become extremely inefficient, and often corrupt (look at India and China).
- darkhorn 10y ago
  So that is why everybody wants to move to Europe and feel safe there? It is like a magnet. Not only for economy but for safety too. The EU is established to prevent wars and to keep peace. What heaven is there out of EU? The USA where they shoot you during a police raid or Russia where they shoot you for being an opposition leader or Russia and Turkey where they put your buisness in jail for not supporting the leader or Middle East where ISIS like countries are everywhere or China which is humans' republic?
  - lend000 10y ago
    > The EU is established to prevent wars and to keep peace. I think there are a lot of people in the Middle East and Africa who would take issue with that statement. Nowhere is perfect, but that doesn't mean we should strive to improve. Not a single country in the EU is anything like the socialist paradise many white, liberal, American millennials envision.
  - vacri 10y ago
    > What heaven is there out of EU? New Canastralialand is a pretty good destination. Lots of water in the way though, so impoverished refugees can't get there.
- ascorbic 10y ago
  Yeah, and poor Rhode Island has only two representatives.
visarga 10y ago
As if USA exists in a vacuum.
- castis 10y ago
  Could you explain where you were going with this statement?

Yeah? What makes you say that?

by castis 10y ago

Yeah? What makes you say that?

The EU is composed of seven major institutions, only one of which has direct representation by voters (the EU parliament), and the number of representatives of each country is (roughly) proportional to their size, so any given voter of a small EU country has effectively zero representation. The EU is very far from a democratic, representative system, and yet it hold tremendous power over its 'constituents.' Not to mention the irresponsible ECB policies and fiscal safety net draining the few remaining EU countries with any wealth... I'd like to see more state sovereignty and individual sovereignty return to Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_... The freedom of trade and movement that the EU brought is great, but I suspect that for the most part, that can be negotiated without a 'super-government' making the rules.

Findeton 10y ago
The problem is that the EU is organized in such a way that it is at an intermediate stage between it being just a bunch of different nations and it being something similar to the USA. We need more EU and less nationalism to become something similar to the USA, we need a bigger EU government and smaller nations governments. The EU government is about 1% of the GDP and the nations governments are 50%, we need to reverse those numbers. Of course I agree that the EU is not very democratic right, we also need to change that.
- blibble 10y ago
  > The EU government is about 1% of the GDP this is not actually true, the way the EU has been setup is very clever: it does not attribute a large proportion of costs directly incurred by its policies to itself. when powers are transferred to the EU, the national institutions used to implement those powers (that previously served the national government) remain, but now implement the EU's legislative program, but the costs incurred doing so are still paid by the national treasuries. prime examples are civil aviation, food safety and agriculture policy. these departments are essentially operated by and for the EU, yet the expenses of those departments are not correctly attributed to the EU. if these expenses were correctly attributed for that 1% would likely be 3-4x higher, and people would be a lot more upset.
- lend000 10y ago
  > the EU is organized in such a way that it is at an intermediate stage between it being just a bunch of different nations and it being something similar to the USA There's certainly an argument for that, but I would instead argue that the US states would benefit from being independent countries (this is not as compelling as dissolving the EU, though; we're not at that point yet). The primary motivator is diseconomies of scale -- these huge organizations become extremely inefficient, and often corrupt (look at India and China).
darkhorn 10y ago
So that is why everybody wants to move to Europe and feel safe there? It is like a magnet. Not only for economy but for safety too. The EU is established to prevent wars and to keep peace. What heaven is there out of EU? The USA where they shoot you during a police raid or Russia where they shoot you for being an opposition leader or Russia and Turkey where they put your buisness in jail for not supporting the leader or Middle East where ISIS like countries are everywhere or China which is humans' republic?
- lend000 10y ago
  > The EU is established to prevent wars and to keep peace. I think there are a lot of people in the Middle East and Africa who would take issue with that statement. Nowhere is perfect, but that doesn't mean we should strive to improve. Not a single country in the EU is anything like the socialist paradise many white, liberal, American millennials envision.
- vacri 10y ago
  > What heaven is there out of EU? New Canastralialand is a pretty good destination. Lots of water in the way though, so impoverished refugees can't get there.
ascorbic 10y ago
Yeah, and poor Rhode Island has only two representatives.

visarga 10y ago

As if USA exists in a vacuum.

castis 10y ago
Could you explain where you were going with this statement?