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And don't forget that 'payment processing' is never free. In fact, it is never even a flat fee despite the fact that it does not actually cost anything more to

And don't forget that 'payment processing' is never free. In fact, it is never even a flat fee despite the fact that it does not actually cost anything more to transfer a larger number over a network than it does a smaller one. Yet people seem to have no problem handing over the majority of their economy to 'processed' payments which empower banks with the ability to do nothing less than levy taxes and exert the same sort of control over the economy that was previously reserved to the federal government. If they wish to restrict the availability of money in the economy, they can simply raise the payment processing fees. If they wish to boost their own profit margin, they simply raise the payment processing fees. They show favoritism by giving large companies big discounts on those fees, revealing them not to be fees actually needed to pay for a service being provided but merely a chunk of money they take simply because they can.

bjelkeman-again 10y ago
Cash handling is not free either. Large amounts require security or increased risk.
- mikejmoffitt 10y ago
  Risk doesn't cost money in the way payment processing costs money.
  - alexbeloi 10y ago
    Risk is the expectation of incurring a cost, payment is the realization of a cost. So I think they're very interchangeable.
  - rimantas 10y ago
    Unless you keep all your cash collected under the pillow it does cost money to deposit it at the bank.
skookumchuck 10y ago
There was a long period of "free banking" in this country where banks printed banknotes, not the government.
kalleboo 10y ago
> If they wish to restrict the availability of money in the economy, they can simply raise the payment processing fees. If they wish to boost their own profit margin, they simply raise the payment processing fees In Europe, payment processing interchange fees are regulated. Debit cards are fixed at 0.3% and credit cards at 0.2%. SEPA wire payments have zero interchange.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Symbiote 10y ago
  > SEPA wire payments have zero interchange. That's not exactly true. Payments to other countries within the SEPA must not cost more than a domestic payment. That's usually nothing for people, but businesses may pay. As an example, the Bank of Ireland charges businesses €0.10 https://businessbanking.bankofireland.com/banking/current-account/business-current-account/fees/ https://businessbanking.bankofireland.com/banking/current-ac...
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    Right. Banks can charge their customers whatever they want (as long as it's the same as for domestic transfers), but they can't charge other banks fees for accepting their wire transfers. So an upstart bank can claim zero fees, still have access to other banks without them ruining it for them. But in the case of debit/credit cards, you couldn't start a card processor without being subject to fees.
aninhumer 10y ago
> In fact, it is never even a flat fee despite the fact that it does not actually cost anything more to transfer a larger number over a network than it does a smaller one. A flat fee doesn't inherently make more sense either, as the marginal cost of processing a transaction is negligible. The costs come from the infrastructure. There are many ways they could price it, but relating it to transaction size makes a fair amount of sense, since people making larger transactions are demonstrably able to pay more.

bjelkeman-again 10y ago

Cash handling is not free either. Large amounts require security or increased risk.

mikejmoffitt 10y ago
Risk doesn't cost money in the way payment processing costs money.
- alexbeloi 10y ago
  Risk is the expectation of incurring a cost, payment is the realization of a cost. So I think they're very interchangeable.
- rimantas 10y ago
  Unless you keep all your cash collected under the pillow it does cost money to deposit it at the bank.

skookumchuck 10y ago

There was a long period of "free banking" in this country where banks printed banknotes, not the government.

kalleboo 10y ago

> If they wish to restrict the availability of money in the economy, they can simply raise the payment processing fees. If they wish to boost their own profit margin, they simply raise the payment processing fees In Europe, payment processing interchange fees are regulated. Debit cards are fixed at 0.3% and credit cards at 0.2%. SEPA wire payments have zero interchange.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Symbiote 10y ago
> SEPA wire payments have zero interchange. That's not exactly true. Payments to other countries within the SEPA must not cost more than a domestic payment. That's usually nothing for people, but businesses may pay. As an example, the Bank of Ireland charges businesses €0.10 https://businessbanking.bankofireland.com/banking/current-account/business-current-account/fees/ https://businessbanking.bankofireland.com/banking/current-ac...
- kalleboo 10y ago
  Right. Banks can charge their customers whatever they want (as long as it's the same as for domestic transfers), but they can't charge other banks fees for accepting their wire transfers. So an upstart bank can claim zero fees, still have access to other banks without them ruining it for them. But in the case of debit/credit cards, you couldn't start a card processor without being subject to fees.

aninhumer 10y ago

> In fact, it is never even a flat fee despite the fact that it does not actually cost anything more to transfer a larger number over a network than it does a smaller one. A flat fee doesn't inherently make more sense either, as the marginal cost of processing a transaction is negligible. The costs come from the infrastructure. There are many ways they could price it, but relating it to transaction size makes a fair amount of sense, since people making larger transactions are demonstrably able to pay more.