5 ms·

The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. I can not choose not to

by darawk 10y ago

The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. I can not choose not to be pulled over for speeding, or opt out of murder laws temporarily. The fact that you don't have a say in Uber's corporate decisions is irrelevant, because you can simply stop using it. You don't need a say. The fact that you can't opt out of government is why you're given a say, and what makes it infinitely more dangerous.

mavrc 10y ago
> The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. True. I have effectively no choice in ISP, and no choice in power company. At what point do I get to vote on seats on my ISP's board, or my power company's?
- hammock 10y ago
  When you buy shares
- darawk 10y ago
  That's quite different. ISPs are regulated in a special way because they are monopolies. Monopolies occupy a middle ground between government and company. A business monopoly is like a mild/weak form of government.
- modeless 10y ago
  Guess why you have no choice in ISP or power company? Because the government deliberately regulates those markets to reduce competition, often to the monopoly level. But they don't give you any compensation for that, such as a say in how the companies are run. This is the root cause of many problems in other markets too. High pharmaceutical prices? The government granted monopolies (patents) to those companies. Forced to use Windows? Microsoft has a government-granted monopoly (copyright) on Windows. Strange that limiting or revoking these state-granted monopoly rights is never considered as an option for remedying these problems. More relevant to this article, the government has historically put drastic limits on the number of taxis that can operate in a city, to the point where the permits required to operate one were once worth over a million dollars apiece. The need to disrupt that system is why Uber developed a culture of law-breaking to begin with.
- magila 10y ago
  You chose indirectly when you voted for the city counselors who granted franchise agreements to your ISP and power company.
nemacol 10y ago
You can choose not to use Uber and effectively ignore them but that does not stop them from having an influence on you, your community, and your country. It is true that being part of a government system is not a choice but without that community you would be dead or at least not an educated human with internet access. You cannot reap the rewards of government, community, and progress and then turn around and want to abolish the systems that made those things possible just because you cannot speed and murder people.
- darawk 10y ago
  > You cannot reap the rewards of government, community, and progress and then turn around and want to abolish the systems that made those things possible just because you cannot speed and murder people. What systems are those, exactly? Protectionist laws for taxi drivers?
  - nemacol 10y ago
    Sure, if we stick with Uber and transportation topic. Labor laws, minimum wage, vehicle inspections, registration. systems and rules that were put in place as a response to what citizens felt were "wrongs" that needed to be addressed. When a organization ignores those laws then they are going against the will of the people.
    - karzeem 10y ago
      When given a choice, drivers stampeded from yellow cabs to Uber. Riders stampeded from yellow cabs to Uber. It's clear which one most parties prefer. And that suggests that all those government "services" around the provision of taxi service are valued at or below 0 by most people.
      - nemacol 10y ago
        You are speaking in broad terms and are making an assessment based on them. "drivers stampeded" "riders stampeded" "most parties" and you round all that off by saying that the value of the services offered were below 0. I cannot speak to the motivation of those that chose Uber as a customer or employer. Perhaps customers chose them because of the cost and convenient app. Perhaps employees chose them because of the low barrier to entry and flexible hours. Just because something different came along and grabbed everyone's attention does not mean that the gov services are valued at zero. There was a time when those yellow cabs had little to no rules or oversight. And that changed for a good reason - or at least a reason that people thought were good at a time. The rules for Uber are going to change too - there will be laws and rules designed to correct wrongs (either real or perceived). If the rules need to be different then people need to stand up and try to make the rules what they think they should be. My argument is that Uber should not decide on its own not to respect the will of the people.
sgift 10y ago
> The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. I can not choose not to be pulled over for speeding, or opt out of murder laws temporarily. Sure you can. Just leave their jurisdiction. I've heard Somalia is nice.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  Just leave their jurisdiction. Their "jurisdiction" is invalid, so why should we leave?
  - sgift 10y ago
    It's invalid because you don't like it? I don't like many things, doesn't make them go away.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    Your statement is false.
    - mindcrime 10y ago
      No it isn't.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  What have you heard about Somalia? Please give a brief over view of what you know about it, and what about it you heard was nice.
  - usrusr 10y ago
    It demonstrates all the benefits of the very weak government some people wish for.
    - lacampbell 10y ago
      Please enlighten me on the quality of life in Somalia while it had a central government, vs before it had one. Statistics are slow and unreliable coming out of there, so feel free to limit you answer to the Barre Administration, as well as those areas that during the Civil war were under control of the Islamic Courts Union and the Transitional Goverments. I look forward to being amazed by the breadth of your knowledge about the history and conditions of Somalia and how it pertains to libertarianism.

by darawk 10y ago

mavrc 10y ago

> The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. True. I have effectively no choice in ISP, and no choice in power company. At what point do I get to vote on seats on my ISP's board, or my power company's?

hammock 10y ago
When you buy shares
darawk 10y ago
That's quite different. ISPs are regulated in a special way because they are monopolies. Monopolies occupy a middle ground between government and company. A business monopoly is like a mild/weak form of government.
modeless 10y ago
Guess why you have no choice in ISP or power company? Because the government deliberately regulates those markets to reduce competition, often to the monopoly level. But they don't give you any compensation for that, such as a say in how the companies are run. This is the root cause of many problems in other markets too. High pharmaceutical prices? The government granted monopolies (patents) to those companies. Forced to use Windows? Microsoft has a government-granted monopoly (copyright) on Windows. Strange that limiting or revoking these state-granted monopoly rights is never considered as an option for remedying these problems. More relevant to this article, the government has historically put drastic limits on the number of taxis that can operate in a city, to the point where the permits required to operate one were once worth over a million dollars apiece. The need to disrupt that system is why Uber developed a culture of law-breaking to begin with.
magila 10y ago
You chose indirectly when you voted for the city counselors who granted franchise agreements to your ISP and power company.

nemacol 10y ago

You can choose not to use Uber and effectively ignore them but that does not stop them from having an influence on you, your community, and your country. It is true that being part of a government system is not a choice but without that community you would be dead or at least not an educated human with internet access. You cannot reap the rewards of government, community, and progress and then turn around and want to abolish the systems that made those things possible just because you cannot speed and murder people.

darawk 10y ago
> You cannot reap the rewards of government, community, and progress and then turn around and want to abolish the systems that made those things possible just because you cannot speed and murder people. What systems are those, exactly? Protectionist laws for taxi drivers?
- nemacol 10y ago
  Sure, if we stick with Uber and transportation topic. Labor laws, minimum wage, vehicle inspections, registration. systems and rules that were put in place as a response to what citizens felt were "wrongs" that needed to be addressed. When a organization ignores those laws then they are going against the will of the people.
  - karzeem 10y ago
    When given a choice, drivers stampeded from yellow cabs to Uber. Riders stampeded from yellow cabs to Uber. It's clear which one most parties prefer. And that suggests that all those government "services" around the provision of taxi service are valued at or below 0 by most people.
    - nemacol 10y ago
      You are speaking in broad terms and are making an assessment based on them. "drivers stampeded" "riders stampeded" "most parties" and you round all that off by saying that the value of the services offered were below 0. I cannot speak to the motivation of those that chose Uber as a customer or employer. Perhaps customers chose them because of the cost and convenient app. Perhaps employees chose them because of the low barrier to entry and flexible hours. Just because something different came along and grabbed everyone's attention does not mean that the gov services are valued at zero. There was a time when those yellow cabs had little to no rules or oversight. And that changed for a good reason - or at least a reason that people thought were good at a time. The rules for Uber are going to change too - there will be laws and rules designed to correct wrongs (either real or perceived). If the rules need to be different then people need to stand up and try to make the rules what they think they should be. My argument is that Uber should not decide on its own not to respect the will of the people.

sgift 10y ago

> The 'say' you have in government is much smaller than the 'say' you have in using Uber. I can choose not to use Uber any time I please. I can not choose not to be pulled over for speeding, or opt out of murder laws temporarily. Sure you can. Just leave their jurisdiction. I've heard Somalia is nice.

mindcrime 10y ago
Just leave their jurisdiction. Their "jurisdiction" is invalid, so why should we leave?
- sgift 10y ago
  It's invalid because you don't like it? I don't like many things, doesn't make them go away.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Your statement is false.
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    No it isn't.
lacampbell 10y ago
What have you heard about Somalia? Please give a brief over view of what you know about it, and what about it you heard was nice.
- usrusr 10y ago
  It demonstrates all the benefits of the very weak government some people wish for.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    Please enlighten me on the quality of life in Somalia while it had a central government, vs before it had one. Statistics are slow and unreliable coming out of there, so feel free to limit you answer to the Barre Administration, as well as those areas that during the Civil war were under control of the Islamic Courts Union and the Transitional Goverments. I look forward to being amazed by the breadth of your knowledge about the history and conditions of Somalia and how it pertains to libertarianism.