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> still much more of a hassle That's when everything works correctly. What about when the power goes out and the card reading device stops working? What about

by pdkl95 10y ago

> still much more of a hassle That's when everything works correctly. What about when the power goes out and the card reading device stops working? What about transaction denials due to bank mistakes (or predatory policies)? Having the option to pay with credit/etc is nice, but the failure modes can be nasty.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
I've had the pleasure (?) of going on vacation without notifying the card company. Because a hotel was late with a correction to their charge, that showed the card in use at two places at once, so they shut it down. While I was on vacation. That got... uncomfortable. Fortunately, they only shut down my card. My wife's still worked, and we were able to proceed. It made for a more stressful vacation, though...
- ghaff 10y ago
  Pro tip. Always carry a second credit card (from a different bank) when you travel. It's just too easy for anti-fraud systems to be triggered by something they don't like and to be in a situation where you're not really in a position to spend 30 minutes on the phone proving you are who you say you are. The systems can really trigger on random stuff too. After the last time when I gave them holy hell and threatened to pull my business, I haven't had trouble since. But before that, as someone who travels worldwide, I had transactions declined at 1.) a gas station convenience store and 2.) a grocery store in the Western US.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  This is why I always have two bank accounts (with two different banks and two different ATM cards) and always have two credit cards, in case one bank account or one credit card gets shut down or skimmed it wouldn't be a big inconvenience. Especially helpful if you are going out of the country.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    I've never gone so far as to have a second bank account. But I'm guessing a brokerage account could basically serve as the same thing.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Yes, absolutely, most brokerage accounts let you request ATM card/debit card/checks to access your core position. Additionally, Both Fidelity and Schwab let you open a free checking account(1) as well with no balance limits and ATM reimbursement. Second bank account is more important than second credit card, IMO. Being locked out of your cash is much worse than being locked out of your credit. (1) technically they are brokerage accounts also, at least for Fidelity, but they hold your deposits in FDIC insured banks and are designed to be used for everyday spending, exactly the same as a checking account.
      - ghaff 10y ago
        >Being locked out of your cash is much worse than being locked out of your credit. As a general principle I tend to agree. But, when traveling, having something that functions as a credit card can be pretty important. (Of course, if you have a healthy cash balance and a debit card, that works equally well.)
- jdeibele 10y ago
  My wife had her wallet stolen in Florence while we were traveling. It turned out that some banks will give different numbers to each card and other banks (Bank of America) will give the same number. We had to cancel the BofA card that I had. Fortunately our CapitalOne card used different numbers and we were able to keep traveling without a lot of hassle. For our next trip, we're going to make sure there's no number overlap.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    There's card numbers, and then there's card numbers. That is: My wife and I have cards that have the same number on the front. On the back, though, the three-digit... I forget what it's called, but there's this additional number that is not embossed into the face of the card. Her card has a different one of those than mine does. And the bank can tell the difference, can tell which card made the purchase, and can shut down one but not the other. So it doesn't matter if the two cards share the same main number, as long as the bank can tell them apart. Does BofA give different three-digit extra numbers to their cards? Do they give the same extra numbers? Do they give extra numbers at all?
    - uiri 10y ago
      The numbers on the back - the CVV code - is essentially a cryptographic hash of the information on the front of the card: expiration date, name, card number, whatever else is on there. So each physical card should have a different CVV if the card number is the same. Given 3-4 digits and millions of issued cards, there will of course be collisions among cards with different numbers. I think every card issued by Visa, Mastercard and American Express (at the very least) in the US has these extra numbers.
protomyth 10y ago
I was buying gas at 2AM in Grand Forks, ND on my way back to my parents home. I had stopped at that same station multiple times, but Citibank denied the authorization (plenty of money, and I only used that card for gas). I foolishly was about $5 short on cash[1], had to call Citibank and yell. Had to walk to the across the street that had an ATM that would work with my bank card (gas station ATM didn't have the network). It was a typical ND winter night. The failure mode on getting permission is really nasty. Thinking about it, they really had some sh!+ software at that point since I only used the card at 4 gas stations with 1 in the Plymouth, MN and the other three on the I94 / I29 route. 1) after this I started following my Dad's policy of hiding $100 in the car for emergencies.
- ghaff 10y ago
  The declines can really be out of left field sometimes. As I mentioned elsewhere,I now make a point of always having a backup. I've had a card that routinely has very large travel expenses in multiple countries turned down for a $20 gas purchase when traveling domestically.

by pdkl95 10y ago

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

I've had the pleasure (?) of going on vacation without notifying the card company. Because a hotel was late with a correction to their charge, that showed the card in use at two places at once, so they shut it down. While I was on vacation. That got... uncomfortable. Fortunately, they only shut down my card. My wife's still worked, and we were able to proceed. It made for a more stressful vacation, though...

ghaff 10y ago
Pro tip. Always carry a second credit card (from a different bank) when you travel. It's just too easy for anti-fraud systems to be triggered by something they don't like and to be in a situation where you're not really in a position to spend 30 minutes on the phone proving you are who you say you are. The systems can really trigger on random stuff too. After the last time when I gave them holy hell and threatened to pull my business, I haven't had trouble since. But before that, as someone who travels worldwide, I had transactions declined at 1.) a gas station convenience store and 2.) a grocery store in the Western US.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
This is why I always have two bank accounts (with two different banks and two different ATM cards) and always have two credit cards, in case one bank account or one credit card gets shut down or skimmed it wouldn't be a big inconvenience. Especially helpful if you are going out of the country.
- ghaff 10y ago
  I've never gone so far as to have a second bank account. But I'm guessing a brokerage account could basically serve as the same thing.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Yes, absolutely, most brokerage accounts let you request ATM card/debit card/checks to access your core position. Additionally, Both Fidelity and Schwab let you open a free checking account(1) as well with no balance limits and ATM reimbursement. Second bank account is more important than second credit card, IMO. Being locked out of your cash is much worse than being locked out of your credit. (1) technically they are brokerage accounts also, at least for Fidelity, but they hold your deposits in FDIC insured banks and are designed to be used for everyday spending, exactly the same as a checking account.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      >Being locked out of your cash is much worse than being locked out of your credit. As a general principle I tend to agree. But, when traveling, having something that functions as a credit card can be pretty important. (Of course, if you have a healthy cash balance and a debit card, that works equally well.)
jdeibele 10y ago
My wife had her wallet stolen in Florence while we were traveling. It turned out that some banks will give different numbers to each card and other banks (Bank of America) will give the same number. We had to cancel the BofA card that I had. Fortunately our CapitalOne card used different numbers and we were able to keep traveling without a lot of hassle. For our next trip, we're going to make sure there's no number overlap.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  There's card numbers, and then there's card numbers. That is: My wife and I have cards that have the same number on the front. On the back, though, the three-digit... I forget what it's called, but there's this additional number that is not embossed into the face of the card. Her card has a different one of those than mine does. And the bank can tell the difference, can tell which card made the purchase, and can shut down one but not the other. So it doesn't matter if the two cards share the same main number, as long as the bank can tell them apart. Does BofA give different three-digit extra numbers to their cards? Do they give the same extra numbers? Do they give extra numbers at all?
  - uiri 10y ago
    The numbers on the back - the CVV code - is essentially a cryptographic hash of the information on the front of the card: expiration date, name, card number, whatever else is on there. So each physical card should have a different CVV if the card number is the same. Given 3-4 digits and millions of issued cards, there will of course be collisions among cards with different numbers. I think every card issued by Visa, Mastercard and American Express (at the very least) in the US has these extra numbers.

protomyth 10y ago

I was buying gas at 2AM in Grand Forks, ND on my way back to my parents home. I had stopped at that same station multiple times, but Citibank denied the authorization (plenty of money, and I only used that card for gas). I foolishly was about $5 short on cash[1], had to call Citibank and yell. Had to walk to the across the street that had an ATM that would work with my bank card (gas station ATM didn't have the network). It was a typical ND winter night. The failure mode on getting permission is really nasty. Thinking about it, they really had some sh!+ software at that point since I only used the card at 4 gas stations with 1 in the Plymouth, MN and the other three on the I94 / I29 route. 1) after this I started following my Dad's policy of hiding $100 in the car for emergencies.

ghaff 10y ago
The declines can really be out of left field sometimes. As I mentioned elsewhere,I now make a point of always having a backup. I've had a card that routinely has very large travel expenses in multiple countries turned down for a $20 gas purchase when traveling domestically.