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Glad I looked inside the .deb file before I installed this. It does the following things: - Adds `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/fman.list - Adds `/etc/cron.daily/fm

by dflock 10y ago

Glad I looked inside the .deb file before I installed this. It does the following things: - Adds `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/fman.list - Adds `/etc/cron.daily/fman`, which does this: #!/bin/sh update-fman The `/usr/bin/update-fman` script does this: #!/bin/sh set -e apt-get update -o Dir::Etc::sourcelist="/etc/apt/sources.list.d/fman.list" -o Dir::Etc::sourceparts="-" -o APT::Get::List-Cleanup="0" apt-get install --only-upgrade fman -y As far as I'm concerned, it's great to add your repo to `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/` - this allows me to receive automatic updates to fman on my schedule. It's not great to run a script as root that brute forces an update to fman every single day. Also, if I delete this, it'll just come back when the next update happens.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mottosso 10y ago
The equivalent seem true for Windows, in which two Windows Tasks are added to C:\Windows\Tasks that automatically update fman every 24 hours. C:\Users\marcus\AppData\Local\fman\Update\fmanUpdate.exe /ua /installsource scheduler
- stinos 10y ago
  I never unsderstood why one would choose this method over just running the updater everytime or every couple of times when the application is started. I mean, if I'm not eving using the application why would I want it to check for updates? But when I do, and I enabled it, then yes please check for updates.
  - mherrmann 10y ago
    It's a technical problem. On Mac, that's how it works [1]. On Windows, it uses Google Omaha, the same technology that is also used by Chrome [2]. This technology simply works that way, I believe because of permission issues (eg. user not allowed to write to C:\Program Files) and (I think) because it's harder on Windows to move/delete/overwrite an executable while it's running. [1]: https://fman.io/blog/codesigning-and-automatic-updates-for-pyqt-apps/ https://fman.io/blog/codesigning-and-automatic-updates-for-p... [2]: https://fman.io/blog/google-omaha-tutorial/ https://fman.io/blog/google-omaha-tutorial/
- mherrmann 10y ago
  As mentioned in the parent, this is documented on the home page [1]. [1]: https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates
mherrmann 10y ago
This behaviour is described on the home page [1]. Sorry it's not to your liking. fman's features are prioritised according to the number of votes they receive on a public Trello board [2]. There's a card for making it possible to disable automatic updates [3]. The intention is obviously not for it to come back when you delete it. If you remove it in the same way you installed it (via the package manager), then the files you mentioned are removed as well. [1]: https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates [2]: https://trello.com/b/WpIUiPAd/fman https://trello.com/b/WpIUiPAd/fman [3]: https://trello.com/c/PZ664CEQ/9-make-auto-update-functionality-configurable https://trello.com/c/PZ664CEQ/9-make-auto-update-functionali...
- pathsjs 10y ago
  That is obviously not the home page. It is not even the first page when a user opens the documentation. Also, you make it sound like disabling automatic updates is something that requires work, hence needs to be prioritized on a task board. In fact it is quite the opposite: work was needed to enable automatic updates in the first place!
- vog 10y ago
  > This behaviour is described on the home page. This should be a big, fat warning with a clear description on how to install your package without the root cronjob. And that warning should appear right on the front site, not just some sub site. > Sorry it's not to your liking. This is not about personal taste. This is about violating well-established best practices that have very good reasons to exist. Running custom scripts as root, and especially adding custom cronjobs as root, should only be done if absolutely required for the tool to perform its task at all, e.g. for tools like logrotate. Everything else is a violation of trust, and thus a no-go for package maintainers. If a user wants daily updates, they configure the APT or Synaptic accordingly. It is the decision of the user, preferably for the whole system, at a time convenient for them. This is certainly not the decision of a single package maintainer. Keep in mind that many people choose a Free Software distribution like Debian because they developed an aversion to uninvited extra code running on their machine. Why? Because this is what was forced on them by their old proprietary operating system.
mherrmann 10y ago
I didn't know it was considered such a bad practice, sorry. I will either remove this or ask permission from the user BEFORE doing it [1]. [1]: https://trello.com/c/LZcZRM8a/153-linux-don-t-install-auto-update-task-without-the-user-s-permission https://trello.com/c/LZcZRM8a/153-linux-don-t-install-auto-u...
- dflock 10y ago
  I would suggest just removing it. Debian/Linux have a system wide update mechanism for everything - the OS & apps - and it's very strongly preferred that you just use that. The UX of asking stuff during install is also pretty bad - and goes against the grain; it's vanishingly rare that Linux install packages ask questions. Even if you make it a startup/in-app/config option, it would also be a strange question to ask on Linux: Would you like auto-updates? Of course, everything on linux auto-updates, why do you ask? No - I mean would you like me to force-update just fman everyday? What? No! Also, don't forget to update this page while you're at it: https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates
  - mherrmann 10y ago
    Done. fman 0.3.1 is out. Per your suggestion, it just removes the cron job. I wrote an apology [1]. [1]: https://fman.io/blog/an-apology-to-linux-users/ https://fman.io/blog/an-apology-to-linux-users/

by dflock 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mottosso 10y ago

The equivalent seem true for Windows, in which two Windows Tasks are added to C:\Windows\Tasks that automatically update fman every 24 hours. C:\Users\marcus\AppData\Local\fman\Update\fmanUpdate.exe /ua /installsource scheduler

stinos 10y ago
I never unsderstood why one would choose this method over just running the updater everytime or every couple of times when the application is started. I mean, if I'm not eving using the application why would I want it to check for updates? But when I do, and I enabled it, then yes please check for updates.
- mherrmann 10y ago
  It's a technical problem. On Mac, that's how it works [1]. On Windows, it uses Google Omaha, the same technology that is also used by Chrome [2]. This technology simply works that way, I believe because of permission issues (eg. user not allowed to write to C:\Program Files) and (I think) because it's harder on Windows to move/delete/overwrite an executable while it's running. [1]: https://fman.io/blog/codesigning-and-automatic-updates-for-pyqt-apps/ https://fman.io/blog/codesigning-and-automatic-updates-for-p... [2]: https://fman.io/blog/google-omaha-tutorial/ https://fman.io/blog/google-omaha-tutorial/
mherrmann 10y ago
As mentioned in the parent, this is documented on the home page [1]. [1]: https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates

mherrmann 10y ago

This behaviour is described on the home page [1]. Sorry it's not to your liking. fman's features are prioritised according to the number of votes they receive on a public Trello board [2]. There's a card for making it possible to disable automatic updates [3]. The intention is obviously not for it to come back when you delete it. If you remove it in the same way you installed it (via the package manager), then the files you mentioned are removed as well. [1]: https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates [2]: https://trello.com/b/WpIUiPAd/fman https://trello.com/b/WpIUiPAd/fman [3]: https://trello.com/c/PZ664CEQ/9-make-auto-update-functionality-configurable https://trello.com/c/PZ664CEQ/9-make-auto-update-functionali...

pathsjs 10y ago
That is obviously not the home page. It is not even the first page when a user opens the documentation. Also, you make it sound like disabling automatic updates is something that requires work, hence needs to be prioritized on a task board. In fact it is quite the opposite: work was needed to enable automatic updates in the first place!
vog 10y ago
> This behaviour is described on the home page. This should be a big, fat warning with a clear description on how to install your package without the root cronjob. And that warning should appear right on the front site, not just some sub site. > Sorry it's not to your liking. This is not about personal taste. This is about violating well-established best practices that have very good reasons to exist. Running custom scripts as root, and especially adding custom cronjobs as root, should only be done if absolutely required for the tool to perform its task at all, e.g. for tools like logrotate. Everything else is a violation of trust, and thus a no-go for package maintainers. If a user wants daily updates, they configure the APT or Synaptic accordingly. It is the decision of the user, preferably for the whole system, at a time convenient for them. This is certainly not the decision of a single package maintainer. Keep in mind that many people choose a Free Software distribution like Debian because they developed an aversion to uninvited extra code running on their machine. Why? Because this is what was forced on them by their old proprietary operating system.

mherrmann 10y ago

I didn't know it was considered such a bad practice, sorry. I will either remove this or ask permission from the user BEFORE doing it [1]. [1]: https://trello.com/c/LZcZRM8a/153-linux-don-t-install-auto-update-task-without-the-user-s-permission https://trello.com/c/LZcZRM8a/153-linux-don-t-install-auto-u...

dflock 10y ago
I would suggest just removing it. Debian/Linux have a system wide update mechanism for everything - the OS & apps - and it's very strongly preferred that you just use that. The UX of asking stuff during install is also pretty bad - and goes against the grain; it's vanishingly rare that Linux install packages ask questions. Even if you make it a startup/in-app/config option, it would also be a strange question to ask on Linux: Would you like auto-updates? Of course, everything on linux auto-updates, why do you ask? No - I mean would you like me to force-update just fman everyday? What? No! Also, don't forget to update this page while you're at it: https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates https://fman.io/docs/obtaining-updates
- mherrmann 10y ago
  Done. fman 0.3.1 is out. Per your suggestion, it just removes the cron job. I wrote an apology [1]. [1]: https://fman.io/blog/an-apology-to-linux-users/ https://fman.io/blog/an-apology-to-linux-users/