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A cloud IDE like Cloud9 (https://c9.io/ https://c9.io/) works well on a Chromebook. If I were teaching programming today, I'd probably start with something lik

A cloud IDE like Cloud9 (https://c9.io/ https://c9.io/) works well on a Chromebook. If I were teaching programming today, I'd probably start with something like GoMix (https://gomix.com https://gomix.com) or Scratch (https://scratch.mit.edu/ https://scratch.mit.edu/) - neither of which require a download. Not saying there isn't value in installing native software... but it's amazing what you can do in a web browser these days vs. 2010 when I was teaching middle schoolers intro programming.

microcolonel 10y ago
To be honest though, I think these environments make new programmers go through the trouble of learning a platform which they can never ship a real application in; except maybe Cloud9. Scratch has been around for about 15 years now, and 12 years in a workable state. And while it seems superficially to be helpful (none of that fussy text editing!), I have never met a programmer who got their start in Scratch.
- 2arrs2ells 10y ago
  I got my start in Scratch! And so did everyone else whose first programming experience was CS50 (http://cs50.tv/2016/fall/ http://cs50.tv/2016/fall/). Don't want to threadcrap too much, but I deeply believe that most programming in the future will happen in environments like GoMix, in the same way that a ton of programming today happens in Visual Basic.
  - fleshweasel 10y ago
    Do you mean Visual Studio?
    - SpaceManiac 10y ago
      GP means Visual Basic, probably as in the VB macros that you can write within Word/Excel/Access etc., in which there is surely a huge amount of code written by otherwise non-programmers.
- knowaveragejoe 10y ago
  I think what you're saying is true in a sense but misses the point of this part of their education. I think the idea is less about making grade school students into career-ready programmers and more to expose them to programming concepts in general. They're increasingly useful in a wide variety of fields, even if you don't end up being a programmer or touch code again.
  - microcolonel 10y ago
    I'm not saying it absolutely prevents people from moving forward. I just fondly remember my first programming environment being an HTML file with a script tag. It was a real environment, people were doing real things, and I learned based on the (at the time, quite bad) example of professionals. It also made it easy to go on Wikipedia and directly transfer concepts into my program from the pseudocode or C. Learning first in a real language gave me the opportunity to read many real programs very quickly. I think GoMix and, to a lesser extent, Cloud9 give you a real language environment. I think that's a good step, though I have some minor qualms about the quality of the integrated text editors (which is really the web's fault). Forget career-ready, I want naturals to never need to be told or convinced to program.
  - bnolsen 10y ago
    just teach traditional logic. programming naturally falls into those basic concepts. School is about basic education and thinking. Yes its fine to be exposed to the current modern tools but a mistake to be teaching current tools as they are always constantly changing anyways.
- witty_username 10y ago
  I started programming through Scratch (then I shifted to Python).

microcolonel 10y ago

To be honest though, I think these environments make new programmers go through the trouble of learning a platform which they can never ship a real application in; except maybe Cloud9. Scratch has been around for about 15 years now, and 12 years in a workable state. And while it seems superficially to be helpful (none of that fussy text editing!), I have never met a programmer who got their start in Scratch.

2arrs2ells 10y ago
I got my start in Scratch! And so did everyone else whose first programming experience was CS50 (http://cs50.tv/2016/fall/ http://cs50.tv/2016/fall/). Don't want to threadcrap too much, but I deeply believe that most programming in the future will happen in environments like GoMix, in the same way that a ton of programming today happens in Visual Basic.
- fleshweasel 10y ago
  Do you mean Visual Studio?
  - SpaceManiac 10y ago
    GP means Visual Basic, probably as in the VB macros that you can write within Word/Excel/Access etc., in which there is surely a huge amount of code written by otherwise non-programmers.
knowaveragejoe 10y ago
I think what you're saying is true in a sense but misses the point of this part of their education. I think the idea is less about making grade school students into career-ready programmers and more to expose them to programming concepts in general. They're increasingly useful in a wide variety of fields, even if you don't end up being a programmer or touch code again.
- microcolonel 10y ago
  I'm not saying it absolutely prevents people from moving forward. I just fondly remember my first programming environment being an HTML file with a script tag. It was a real environment, people were doing real things, and I learned based on the (at the time, quite bad) example of professionals. It also made it easy to go on Wikipedia and directly transfer concepts into my program from the pseudocode or C. Learning first in a real language gave me the opportunity to read many real programs very quickly. I think GoMix and, to a lesser extent, Cloud9 give you a real language environment. I think that's a good step, though I have some minor qualms about the quality of the integrated text editors (which is really the web's fault). Forget career-ready, I want naturals to never need to be told or convinced to program.
- bnolsen 10y ago
  just teach traditional logic. programming naturally falls into those basic concepts. School is about basic education and thinking. Yes its fine to be exposed to the current modern tools but a mistake to be teaching current tools as they are always constantly changing anyways.
witty_username 10y ago
I started programming through Scratch (then I shifted to Python).