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> ethical problem with conscription None whatsoever. Individual rights has real meaning only when others protect them. Individual rights are never free. Yo

> ethical problem with conscription None whatsoever. Individual rights has real meaning only when others protect them. Individual rights are never free. You can have freedom of speech, movement, assembly and property rights only when the group you live in agrees that you have those things and protects them when you can't. When the existence of that groups existence or freedom to organize is threatened, it's time to pay retroactively for the rights you had and pay so that you can have them in the future. In practice you can always serve unarmed or be in civil defense organization, but when whole nation prepares for self defense, everyone must make an effort. I think professional armies are ethically more problematic. You create profession that fights and kills for your nation and government and it can be used to fight wars that are not that important or well thought. If war is not big national emergency, it's probably not a just war. I think 'War Is a Racket' by Major General Smedley D Butler provides ethical solution. When there is a war, you conscript everything, people and profits. If one is not going to war, one works with the same pay as a conscript until the war is over. Business can't keep the profits until the war is over. This would take the ethical problems out from professional armies. https://archive.org/details/WarIsARacket https://archive.org/details/WarIsARacket

literallycancer 10y ago
>When there is a war, you conscript everything, people and profits. Wouldn't you have issues with the most capable people just leaving?
- Nokinside 10y ago
  I don't think you realize how everything changes when nation is mobilized and war powers step in. People can't just step in a plane and leave the country, or move large amounts of money.
  - Strom 10y ago
    Everything doesn't change overnight. There are plenty of warnings beforehand, and plenty of opportunity even during war. It takes quite a bit of time to lock everything down.
Asooka 10y ago
Here we're talking about one modern country invading another. It's just the land changing owners - you, as a citizen, never really owned it anyway. It belongs to the ruling class and it doesn't really matter who they are. We're all one people, we should have one language and one culture. Every modern country has the concepts you outlined above. If the new government doesn't treat you humanely, you can always take civil action to plead for your rights. What's the difference if you speak Swedish, Finnish or Russian? None. What's the difference if you're Orthodox, Catholic or Muslim? None. What's the difference in who takes your taxes? None. The system is always the same, so why should I care that some fat politician will get killed by another fat politician who wants to be the one taking the taxes? Hell, I'll pay to learn his language, too. War only makes sense when they're coming to actually kill you, not when they're coming so that they'll be the one taking the taxes, rather than the current pigs.
- Nokinside 10y ago
  >The system is always the same, Russian and Finnish systems are not the same. Not even close.
  - entropyneur 10y ago
    Yes, but the difference between them is nowhere close to the difference between slavery and freedom or life and death.
    - fjdlwlv 10y ago
      The Russian government has killed more of its own citizens than any war has.
      - entropyneur 10y ago
        I am a card-carrying "russophobe" and I don't have a faintest idea of what you are talking about. Stalin? Then you can make the same statement about German government, but it's not very useful. Chechen wars? But those were actually wars. I am out of ideas at this point.

literallycancer 10y ago

>When there is a war, you conscript everything, people and profits. Wouldn't you have issues with the most capable people just leaving?

Nokinside 10y ago
I don't think you realize how everything changes when nation is mobilized and war powers step in. People can't just step in a plane and leave the country, or move large amounts of money.
- Strom 10y ago
  Everything doesn't change overnight. There are plenty of warnings beforehand, and plenty of opportunity even during war. It takes quite a bit of time to lock everything down.

Asooka 10y ago

Here we're talking about one modern country invading another. It's just the land changing owners - you, as a citizen, never really owned it anyway. It belongs to the ruling class and it doesn't really matter who they are. We're all one people, we should have one language and one culture. Every modern country has the concepts you outlined above. If the new government doesn't treat you humanely, you can always take civil action to plead for your rights. What's the difference if you speak Swedish, Finnish or Russian? None. What's the difference if you're Orthodox, Catholic or Muslim? None. What's the difference in who takes your taxes? None. The system is always the same, so why should I care that some fat politician will get killed by another fat politician who wants to be the one taking the taxes? Hell, I'll pay to learn his language, too. War only makes sense when they're coming to actually kill you, not when they're coming so that they'll be the one taking the taxes, rather than the current pigs.

Nokinside 10y ago
>The system is always the same, Russian and Finnish systems are not the same. Not even close.
- entropyneur 10y ago
  Yes, but the difference between them is nowhere close to the difference between slavery and freedom or life and death.
  - fjdlwlv 10y ago
    The Russian government has killed more of its own citizens than any war has.
    - entropyneur 10y ago
      I am a card-carrying "russophobe" and I don't have a faintest idea of what you are talking about. Stalin? Then you can make the same statement about German government, but it's not very useful. Chechen wars? But those were actually wars. I am out of ideas at this point.