4 ms·

I wonder if Arc is the tortoise to Clojure's hare.

silkodyssey 16y ago
Would you care to elaborate? Your assertion implies that arc is going to surpass clojure in popularity. Why do you think so? Personally I think that's unlikely to happen given the traction that clojure has been getting already. Clojure has been designed for practical use and is already being used in real world projects whereas I get the impression that arc is sort of a research project where Paul is just experimenting with some ideas and is not constrained by the desire to do practical work.
- zachbeane 16y ago
  I didn't make any assertions. Clojure is wildly successful and follows a pattern of development that seems fruitful to emulate. But in the story, the tortoise does win.
  - fogus 16y ago
    I am always on the lookout for interesting stories about people using functional programming on the job. Are you currently using Arc to this end?
    - zachbeane 16y ago
      I don't use Arc at all.
      - zaph0d 16y ago
        ROFLMAO! I think we are taking your comments too seriously.
  - cema 16y ago
    It's not a story. It's a paradox. The tortoise loses, but the paradox pitches logic against intuition and is thus educational, like a koan (from a different cultural tradition). I am not sure if it is applicable to Clojure (as well as Arc and lisp in general) where intuition follows logic rather than contradicts it.
  - forlucy 16y ago
    Worse is better and in this case Clojure is even more so 'The zombie-reanimated corpse of Lisp'. http://jng.imagine27.com/articles/2009-08-19-011225_clojure_the_false_lisp.html http://jng.imagine27.com/articles/2009-08-19-011225_clojure_...
swannodette 16y ago
Besides being a Lisp, Arc does not exist anywhere near the the same territory as Clojure. Lisp introduced us to: code == data Clojure introduces us to: code == concurrent high-performance immutable data
- zachbeane 16y ago
  In a hundred years, is that something that will matter?
  - swannodette 16y ago
    concurrent high-performance immutable data sounds pretty much like the fabric of reality. So I would hazard a YES :) In fact it'll probably matter in a million years from now.
  - jules 16y ago
    In a hundred years, will any of the stuff in Arc matter? What exactly? The innovation in Arc is minimal, Clojure does much more in new and better ways.
  - kleiba 16y ago
    "Multi-core is here to stay", says Rich Hickey
    - forlucy 16y ago
      Hopefully not. Multi-core should be seen as a stepping stone on the way to better technology.
      - runevault 16y ago
        Why not have multi-core version of other tech, unless you are talking Quantum Computing, though isn't that in some ways the ultimate form of multi-core?
- ynniv 16y ago
francoisdevlin 16y ago
PG lists 9 points that made Lisp awesome. After using Clojure for a while, I would argue that a good approach to State, Identity & Value is point #10.
Artemidoros 16y ago
Arc's problem is that it is not the only tortoise in the race.
praptak 16y ago
I wonder if Arc to Clojure isn't more like GNU Hurd to Linux.
lukev 16y ago
Is there anything promising about Arc other than being PG's pet language? I'm not knocking PG here - I just don't see Arc having any real differences from all the other lisp variants. There's nothing revolutionary about it. Which is fine - it is a 100-year language, not a revolutionary language. I just wonder what the odds are that anyone remembers it in a decade. People use langauges that are unique, and as far as I can see, Arc is not all that unique (unless you're the sort of person who becomes highly excited about the minutia of Lisp semantics)

Would you care to elaborate? Your assertion implies that arc is going to surpass clojure in popularity. Why do you think so? Personally I think that's unlikely to happen given the traction that clojure has been getting already. Clojure has been designed for practical use and is already being used in real world projects whereas I get the impression that arc is sort of a research project where Paul is just experimenting with some ideas and is not constrained by the desire to do practical work.

zachbeane 16y ago
I didn't make any assertions. Clojure is wildly successful and follows a pattern of development that seems fruitful to emulate. But in the story, the tortoise does win.
- fogus 16y ago
  I am always on the lookout for interesting stories about people using functional programming on the job. Are you currently using Arc to this end?
  - zachbeane 16y ago
    I don't use Arc at all.
    - zaph0d 16y ago
      ROFLMAO! I think we are taking your comments too seriously.
- cema 16y ago
  It's not a story. It's a paradox. The tortoise loses, but the paradox pitches logic against intuition and is thus educational, like a koan (from a different cultural tradition). I am not sure if it is applicable to Clojure (as well as Arc and lisp in general) where intuition follows logic rather than contradicts it.
- forlucy 16y ago
  Worse is better and in this case Clojure is even more so 'The zombie-reanimated corpse of Lisp'. http://jng.imagine27.com/articles/2009-08-19-011225_clojure_the_false_lisp.html http://jng.imagine27.com/articles/2009-08-19-011225_clojure_...

swannodette 16y ago

Besides being a Lisp, Arc does not exist anywhere near the the same territory as Clojure. Lisp introduced us to: code == data Clojure introduces us to: code == concurrent high-performance immutable data

zachbeane 16y ago
In a hundred years, is that something that will matter?
- swannodette 16y ago
  concurrent high-performance immutable data sounds pretty much like the fabric of reality. So I would hazard a YES :) In fact it'll probably matter in a million years from now.
- jules 16y ago
  In a hundred years, will any of the stuff in Arc matter? What exactly? The innovation in Arc is minimal, Clojure does much more in new and better ways.
- kleiba 16y ago
  "Multi-core is here to stay", says Rich Hickey
  - forlucy 16y ago
    Hopefully not. Multi-core should be seen as a stepping stone on the way to better technology.
    - runevault 16y ago
      Why not have multi-core version of other tech, unless you are talking Quantum Computing, though isn't that in some ways the ultimate form of multi-core?
ynniv 16y ago

francoisdevlin 16y ago

PG lists 9 points that made Lisp awesome. After using Clojure for a while, I would argue that a good approach to State, Identity & Value is point #10.

Artemidoros 16y ago

Arc's problem is that it is not the only tortoise in the race.

praptak 16y ago

I wonder if Arc to Clojure isn't more like GNU Hurd to Linux.

lukev 16y ago

Is there anything promising about Arc other than being PG's pet language? I'm not knocking PG here - I just don't see Arc having any real differences from all the other lisp variants. There's nothing revolutionary about it. Which is fine - it is a 100-year language, not a revolutionary language. I just wonder what the odds are that anyone remembers it in a decade. People use langauges that are unique, and as far as I can see, Arc is not all that unique (unless you're the sort of person who becomes highly excited about the minutia of Lisp semantics)