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https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt/ https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt... Russia has nothing to gain in bal

by zilean 10y ago

https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt/ https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt... Russia has nothing to gain in baltic that it doesnt have with Kaliningrad. Same goes for Ukraine w/o Crimea.

mzs 10y ago
Russia Today? It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map.
- zilean 10y ago
  Whats wrong with RT in general (besides funding) and this article in particular? > It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map. Why take this land? It does nothing strategically, has population that you need to subsidise, etc. Crimea allows Black Sea control. Kaliningrad effectively makes Baltic inner sea for Russia and if there ever would be any baltic action you would see that, not many (if any) ships would be able to enter.
  - kaitnieks 10y ago
    Latvia has a population you need to subsidize? What do you mean by that?
    - zilean 10y ago
      You cant just occupy country w/o sanctions, export/import chains breaking, you need to rebuild what would be inevitably destroyed during the invasion, etc.
      - mzs 10y ago
        Ukraine shows how much can be tolerated.
        zilean 10y ago
        Well, Russian economy is still in recession. And Russian forces tecchnically never fired a gun in Ukraine or Crimea.
        Steko 10y ago
        Russian forces have fired many guns in Ukraine, full stop. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a419b994ccf14a42977665a9af966ec3/report-russians-regularly-shelled-eastern-ukraine-2014 http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a419b994ccf14a42977665a9af966...
    - vkou 10y ago
      When Russia occupied Crimea, Ukraine pulled out all support for the region's infrastructure. (Electricity, etc.) Quite naturally, Russia had to foot the bill to replace it. The only way to get around that is to seize the entire country.
  - mzs 10y ago
    connection via land to sea, later better positioned for potential Lithuania to Finland ops
    - zilean 10y ago
      Again, why take Lithuania to Finland? Whats the purpose?
      - clock_tower 10y ago
        The Baltics and Finland were both part of the Russian Empire; the Baltics were part of the USSR, and Stalin tried and failed to retake Finland. That's probably cause enough, if you're Putin.
  - kaitnieks 10y ago
    Regarding Kaliningrad - wouldn't it be way more convenient for Russia to have that patch joined to the main country?
qaq 10y ago
Russia's whole propaganda machine is predicated on having Ukraine as integral part of Russia since they base their whole value system on promoting the view that Russia is continuation of Kievan Rus which is modern day Ukraine.
- zilean 10y ago
  Russia is also considers itself (for a quite some hundreds of years) a successor to Byzantine Empire. That does not mean that they want, would or should take any land in that direction. Ukraine is special not because Kiev has to be in Russia, but because a lot of the current Ukrainian land was for, again, some hundreds years Russian and have almost no sovereign history. That makes it easy to play by all sorts of powers and Government is really not the main one there. Just look at Alaska it never gets same attention. Or North Kazakhstan. Same would be with Ukraine in coming 50-100 years if they would be able to hold the country together.
  - qaq 10y ago
    "Or North Kazakhstan" :) you don't watch Russian news much do you?
    - zilean 10y ago
      I dont watch news much. But that doesn't stops me from getting Ukraine from all sorts of angles for a long time (you have to justify Crimea). I dont get much about NK from anyone but some ultra-right aligned personalities (but i am also getting stuff about Alaska from them, so there is that).
      - qaq 10y ago
        There is no independent ultra-right it's just another face of the same ruling group. The things they declare are coordinated by Kremlin. The "crazy" talk about Ukraine that started even prior to 2004 by "ultra-right" leaders was just 1st phase of prep. I would strongly caution against dismissing their msg. because they are voiced by ultra-right.
geoka9 10y ago
Russia has nothing to gain by fighting any war nowadays. It fights because its leaders want to stay in power and it seems to work for now.

by zilean 10y ago

mzs 10y ago

Russia Today? It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map.

zilean 10y ago
Whats wrong with RT in general (besides funding) and this article in particular? > It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map. Why take this land? It does nothing strategically, has population that you need to subsidise, etc. Crimea allows Black Sea control. Kaliningrad effectively makes Baltic inner sea for Russia and if there ever would be any baltic action you would see that, not many (if any) ships would be able to enter.
- kaitnieks 10y ago
  Latvia has a population you need to subsidize? What do you mean by that?
  - zilean 10y ago
    You cant just occupy country w/o sanctions, export/import chains breaking, you need to rebuild what would be inevitably destroyed during the invasion, etc.
    - mzs 10y ago
      Ukraine shows how much can be tolerated.
      - zilean 10y ago
        Well, Russian economy is still in recession. And Russian forces tecchnically never fired a gun in Ukraine or Crimea.
        Steko 10y ago
        Russian forces have fired many guns in Ukraine, full stop. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a419b994ccf14a42977665a9af966ec3/report-russians-regularly-shelled-eastern-ukraine-2014 http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a419b994ccf14a42977665a9af966...
  - vkou 10y ago
    When Russia occupied Crimea, Ukraine pulled out all support for the region's infrastructure. (Electricity, etc.) Quite naturally, Russia had to foot the bill to replace it. The only way to get around that is to seize the entire country.
- mzs 10y ago
  connection via land to sea, later better positioned for potential Lithuania to Finland ops
  - zilean 10y ago
    Again, why take Lithuania to Finland? Whats the purpose?
    - clock_tower 10y ago
      The Baltics and Finland were both part of the Russian Empire; the Baltics were part of the USSR, and Stalin tried and failed to retake Finland. That's probably cause enough, if you're Putin.
- kaitnieks 10y ago
  Regarding Kaliningrad - wouldn't it be way more convenient for Russia to have that patch joined to the main country?

qaq 10y ago

Russia's whole propaganda machine is predicated on having Ukraine as integral part of Russia since they base their whole value system on promoting the view that Russia is continuation of Kievan Rus which is modern day Ukraine.

zilean 10y ago
Russia is also considers itself (for a quite some hundreds of years) a successor to Byzantine Empire. That does not mean that they want, would or should take any land in that direction. Ukraine is special not because Kiev has to be in Russia, but because a lot of the current Ukrainian land was for, again, some hundreds years Russian and have almost no sovereign history. That makes it easy to play by all sorts of powers and Government is really not the main one there. Just look at Alaska it never gets same attention. Or North Kazakhstan. Same would be with Ukraine in coming 50-100 years if they would be able to hold the country together.
- qaq 10y ago
  "Or North Kazakhstan" :) you don't watch Russian news much do you?
  - zilean 10y ago
    I dont watch news much. But that doesn't stops me from getting Ukraine from all sorts of angles for a long time (you have to justify Crimea). I dont get much about NK from anyone but some ultra-right aligned personalities (but i am also getting stuff about Alaska from them, so there is that).
    - qaq 10y ago
      There is no independent ultra-right it's just another face of the same ruling group. The things they declare are coordinated by Kremlin. The "crazy" talk about Ukraine that started even prior to 2004 by "ultra-right" leaders was just 1st phase of prep. I would strongly caution against dismissing their msg. because they are voiced by ultra-right.

geoka9 10y ago

Russia has nothing to gain by fighting any war nowadays. It fights because its leaders want to stay in power and it seems to work for now.