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My worst fears confirmed. Docker finally realized they couldn't get a piece of the orchestration pie and are resorting to making Docker a freemium product. Very

My worst fears confirmed. Docker finally realized they couldn't get a piece of the orchestration pie and are resorting to making Docker a freemium product. Very sad. Wished they had gone so many different directions than this. Knew things were going to get bad then they pushed out their terrible new versioning scheme that every developer had a negative reaction to on the PR. Docker was great, but now I'm really wishing their was a fork or alternative with feature parity.

friism 10y ago
I'm sorry you don't like the new versioning. Echoing @shykes below[1], Docker had premium paid products before this launch, but we're trying to make that clearer and to simplify the product lineup. Note that Docker CE is _just_ as good as the Docker you were using yesterday. In addition, the version lifecycle improvements are designed to get new features into Docker users' hands faster (with monthly Edge releases) and to improve maintainability by overlapping the maintenance windows of free Docker CE quarterly releases. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13774420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13774420
- kordless 10y ago
  > I'm sorry you don't like the new versioning. I would note this is a non-apology, given it's stating you are "sorry" someone doesn't like a decision that was made.
- danudey 10y ago
  > Docker CE is _just_ as good as the Docker you were using yesterday The concern is that the Docker CE we'll be using in 2020 will be missing useful features that Docker EE has, and which vendors who ship containers/Dockerfiles for their products will rely on.
shykes 10y ago
There's no need to worry. `Docker CE` is the exact same Docker as before - just renamed to clarify the relationship to Docker EE. Docker is still open-source; it still has all the same features; it has the same maintainers and contribution roles; it has the same roadmap of features. And we still welcome pull requests. Meanwhile we have been breaking the components of Docker into standalone upstream projects: containerd, swarmkit, libnetwork etc. So there are more and more ways to use parts of Docker without being forced to use all of it. We will continue doing that. Is there any detailed fear that you can describe? I will do my best to reassure you.
- ilovecaching 10y ago
  It may be only a name change today, but relabeling the docker to 'CE' opens up a world of possibilities where 'enterprise features' get shipped in the 'EE' and the 'CE' turns into watered down freemiumware. Honestly I don't believe that this 'clarifies' an existing relationship. DDC was the product and the locked down engine was just a part of that product. This makes it excruciatingly clear that DDC failed to take off and now we're going another level down to making the engine itself a product, which comes with all sorts of questions about what will really be driving the roadmap in the future. What would have been wrong with focusing on monetizing Docker Hub and leaving the tool alone like Github and Git? Docker Hub doesn't look like it's been updated in ages... I also don't see why anyone should be thrilled that this split is being made when you can only offer a 1 year support window for 'EE'? How is anyone going to explain to their manager that what the cool tool they were sold on is now just the 'community version' and if they want support they can only get it for one year at a time? Do you know how long it takes to go through the upgrade process in a large enterprise? We'll be lucky if we get six months or less of support before we have to upgrade again. Also, I feel no urge to go and create pull requests for your community edition product. If Docker were still completely free and community driven I would feel compelled to do my part, but I'm not building software for you to sell.
  - benmusch 10y ago
    Seems unlikely that there would be 'enterprise features'... the value of Docker is that you can send a Dockerfile somewhere and it will work identically on each system. If they changed the feature-set of Docker EE it'd undermine the reason people use their product
    - majewsky 10y ago
      I'd guess that if enterprise features were to appear, it would be higher up in the stack then "sending a Dockerfile somewhere". Container runtimes are becoming (or have already become) a commodity, so people are now chasing to get a slice of the orchestration pie before everyone standardizes on Kubernetes.
    - 10y ago
Tassels 10y ago
Looks like Docker is still Docker, they just tacked on CE at the end. The enterprise edition looks like a promising (and more obvious) way to monetize.
djb_hackernews 10y ago
Docker has always been freemium. Not sure why you'd fear that even if it weren't the case. IMO freemium OSS is a good thing, this is how "free" software gets funded.
thockingoog 10y ago
I don't think this is 100% fair. Docker (the infrastructure)is relied on by SO MANY people and projects that I don't see it going away, even if Docker (the company) shut their doors tomorrow. Now, it's not clear to us in the public HOW MUCH of Docker (the software project)_would fall into that category. From the outside, it appears that there is a lot of community around the infrastructure, and somewhat less community around the higher layers (e.g. SwarmKit).
adictator 10y ago
> and are resorting to making Docker a freemium product. Very sad. I must be missing something. What's wrong with being a freemium product? And that causes you to be 'Very sad'?

friism 10y ago

I'm sorry you don't like the new versioning. Echoing @shykes below[1], Docker had premium paid products before this launch, but we're trying to make that clearer and to simplify the product lineup. Note that Docker CE is _just_ as good as the Docker you were using yesterday. In addition, the version lifecycle improvements are designed to get new features into Docker users' hands faster (with monthly Edge releases) and to improve maintainability by overlapping the maintenance windows of free Docker CE quarterly releases. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13774420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13774420

kordless 10y ago
> I'm sorry you don't like the new versioning. I would note this is a non-apology, given it's stating you are "sorry" someone doesn't like a decision that was made.
danudey 10y ago
> Docker CE is _just_ as good as the Docker you were using yesterday The concern is that the Docker CE we'll be using in 2020 will be missing useful features that Docker EE has, and which vendors who ship containers/Dockerfiles for their products will rely on.

shykes 10y ago

There's no need to worry. `Docker CE` is the exact same Docker as before - just renamed to clarify the relationship to Docker EE. Docker is still open-source; it still has all the same features; it has the same maintainers and contribution roles; it has the same roadmap of features. And we still welcome pull requests. Meanwhile we have been breaking the components of Docker into standalone upstream projects: containerd, swarmkit, libnetwork etc. So there are more and more ways to use parts of Docker without being forced to use all of it. We will continue doing that. Is there any detailed fear that you can describe? I will do my best to reassure you.

ilovecaching 10y ago
It may be only a name change today, but relabeling the docker to 'CE' opens up a world of possibilities where 'enterprise features' get shipped in the 'EE' and the 'CE' turns into watered down freemiumware. Honestly I don't believe that this 'clarifies' an existing relationship. DDC was the product and the locked down engine was just a part of that product. This makes it excruciatingly clear that DDC failed to take off and now we're going another level down to making the engine itself a product, which comes with all sorts of questions about what will really be driving the roadmap in the future. What would have been wrong with focusing on monetizing Docker Hub and leaving the tool alone like Github and Git? Docker Hub doesn't look like it's been updated in ages... I also don't see why anyone should be thrilled that this split is being made when you can only offer a 1 year support window for 'EE'? How is anyone going to explain to their manager that what the cool tool they were sold on is now just the 'community version' and if they want support they can only get it for one year at a time? Do you know how long it takes to go through the upgrade process in a large enterprise? We'll be lucky if we get six months or less of support before we have to upgrade again. Also, I feel no urge to go and create pull requests for your community edition product. If Docker were still completely free and community driven I would feel compelled to do my part, but I'm not building software for you to sell.
- benmusch 10y ago
  Seems unlikely that there would be 'enterprise features'... the value of Docker is that you can send a Dockerfile somewhere and it will work identically on each system. If they changed the feature-set of Docker EE it'd undermine the reason people use their product
  - majewsky 10y ago
    I'd guess that if enterprise features were to appear, it would be higher up in the stack then "sending a Dockerfile somewhere". Container runtimes are becoming (or have already become) a commodity, so people are now chasing to get a slice of the orchestration pie before everyone standardizes on Kubernetes.
  - 10y ago

Tassels 10y ago

Looks like Docker is still Docker, they just tacked on CE at the end. The enterprise edition looks like a promising (and more obvious) way to monetize.

djb_hackernews 10y ago

Docker has always been freemium. Not sure why you'd fear that even if it weren't the case. IMO freemium OSS is a good thing, this is how "free" software gets funded.

thockingoog 10y ago

I don't think this is 100% fair. Docker (the infrastructure)is relied on by SO MANY people and projects that I don't see it going away, even if Docker (the company) shut their doors tomorrow. Now, it's not clear to us in the public HOW MUCH of Docker (the software project)_would fall into that category. From the outside, it appears that there is a lot of community around the infrastructure, and somewhat less community around the higher layers (e.g. SwarmKit).

adictator 10y ago

> and are resorting to making Docker a freemium product. Very sad. I must be missing something. What's wrong with being a freemium product? And that causes you to be 'Very sad'?