8 ms·

The crime rates are much higher in the United States than in Europe. This website claims rape occurs at a 3 times higher rate and murder at a 6 times higher rat

by th5234 10y ago

The crime rates are much higher in the United States than in Europe. This website claims rape occurs at a 3 times higher rate and murder at a 6 times higher rate. I couldn't find any good statistics for robbery but I imagine it's in that range. Yes, crime has been decreasing in the United States for around a quarter of a century, but it still occurs at a much higher rate than Europe and almost an order of magnitude higher than in Asian cities with good transit like Tokyo or Shanghai. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime#2010 http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands... Whether irrational or not, any public transit paradigm has to take the realities of crime and the citizens' perceptions of crime into account if it's going to be successful. And if the crime rate was as low as it is in Europe, it might be easier to get European levels of support for public transit. This implies the need for better policing, earlier social interventions, etc.

RobertoG 10y ago
It seems to me that it's all the same problem. If you have strong public spending you have more educated and less desperate people and better public transport.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  To get the same transit in the US, we'd need to spend 5-10x what Europeans/Asians/anyone else in the world spends. https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comparative-subway-construction-costs-revised/ https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comp... In the US, public spending is generally a way to funnel money to cronies of the inner party (e.g. transit worker unions, construction unions, politically connected consultants). Various other interest groups - mainly NIMBY homeowners - will also demand their pound of flesh. We need to fix our social technology ( http://thefutureprimaeval.net/social-technology-and-anarcho-tyranny/ http://thefutureprimaeval.net/social-technology-and-anarcho-... ) before we can build such things. Luckily we have people like Kalanick taking baby steps in that direction.
  - dannypgh 10y ago
    Wealth is getting increasingly concentrated in this country, and not into the hands of union workers. I think your description of the role of public spending is misleading at best. I could say, equally (if not more) fairly, that all spending (public and private) is generally a way to funnel money to cronies of the capitalist system (e.g. CEOs, shareholders). Maybe a more useful thing to discuss is what the money does in the process. Transit workers do provide labor that makes today's transit systems possible, after all.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      True; wealth is primarily getting concentrated in the hands of middle class (who become upperclass) homeowners in NIMBY cities. See the work of Matthew Rognlie on this. (Growth in home values is the entire source of increased r in Piketty's r > g.) If you want to claim that the US government spending $2-4B somehow funnels money to the capitalists, it's tangential to my point. Wherever the money gets lost, the point is that the US is simply not capable of building transit the way the rest of the world does.
dannypgh 10y ago
Rape and murder are both crimes where the odds are good you know your assailant. I don't believe the overall rate has much to do with transit. Of course, you admit it may not be rational- but in theory education can ease irrational thoughts, and this is likely simpler than solving the problem of crime. http://nypost.com/2014/01/05/odds-that-youll-be-killed-by-a-stranger-in-nyc-on-the-decline/ http://nypost.com/2014/01/05/odds-that-youll-be-killed-by-a-... http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics
- M_Grey 10y ago
  >Rape and murder are both crimes where the odds are good you know your assailant... ...Or are engaged in a criminal enterprise (for murder, not rape).

by th5234 10y ago

RobertoG 10y ago

It seems to me that it's all the same problem. If you have strong public spending you have more educated and less desperate people and better public transport.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
To get the same transit in the US, we'd need to spend 5-10x what Europeans/Asians/anyone else in the world spends. https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comparative-subway-construction-costs-revised/ https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comp... In the US, public spending is generally a way to funnel money to cronies of the inner party (e.g. transit worker unions, construction unions, politically connected consultants). Various other interest groups - mainly NIMBY homeowners - will also demand their pound of flesh. We need to fix our social technology ( http://thefutureprimaeval.net/social-technology-and-anarcho-tyranny/ http://thefutureprimaeval.net/social-technology-and-anarcho-... ) before we can build such things. Luckily we have people like Kalanick taking baby steps in that direction.
- dannypgh 10y ago
  Wealth is getting increasingly concentrated in this country, and not into the hands of union workers. I think your description of the role of public spending is misleading at best. I could say, equally (if not more) fairly, that all spending (public and private) is generally a way to funnel money to cronies of the capitalist system (e.g. CEOs, shareholders). Maybe a more useful thing to discuss is what the money does in the process. Transit workers do provide labor that makes today's transit systems possible, after all.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    True; wealth is primarily getting concentrated in the hands of middle class (who become upperclass) homeowners in NIMBY cities. See the work of Matthew Rognlie on this. (Growth in home values is the entire source of increased r in Piketty's r > g.) If you want to claim that the US government spending $2-4B somehow funnels money to the capitalists, it's tangential to my point. Wherever the money gets lost, the point is that the US is simply not capable of building transit the way the rest of the world does.

dannypgh 10y ago

Rape and murder are both crimes where the odds are good you know your assailant. I don't believe the overall rate has much to do with transit. Of course, you admit it may not be rational- but in theory education can ease irrational thoughts, and this is likely simpler than solving the problem of crime. http://nypost.com/2014/01/05/odds-that-youll-be-killed-by-a-stranger-in-nyc-on-the-decline/ http://nypost.com/2014/01/05/odds-that-youll-be-killed-by-a-... http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics

M_Grey 10y ago
>Rape and murder are both crimes where the odds are good you know your assailant... ...Or are engaged in a criminal enterprise (for murder, not rape).