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They take up less space and result in less pollution and a healthier population. In what way do you think they're about the same?

by IanCal 10y ago

kobeya 10y ago
I get the sense you are imagining this: https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/amsterdam.jpg https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/amsterdam.j... But the pragmatic reality is that in much of the world that has had such a bike culture, you will eventually end up with this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QSXDqDni9VE/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QSXDqDni9VE/maxresdefault.jpg Cars, although far less dense, are objectively better than the latter case. Safer, quieter, less polluting.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  "Cars, although far less dense, are objectively better than the latter case. Safer, quieter, less polluting. " Citation desperately needed. Also, keep in mind there are different ways of defining "safe". Cars are only "safe" inasmuch as they are safer for the occupants and incredibly dangerous for everyone else around. If we considered harm to people _outside_ the car we would view them as much more dangerous (and walking, motorcycling, cycling, etc as being much safer)
- erpellan 10y ago
  Safer? Debatable. There are no cars in that picture, which represent the largest danger to moped riders. You'd also need a road 10x wider for the same volume of traffic.
paulddraper 10y ago
I was mostly referring to congestion. (They certainly have advantages like exercise, noise, and storage space.) Bicycles are physically smaller, but they still need a substantial safety zone, just like cars. It's easier and faster to stop a 25mph car than a 25mph bike.
- IanCal 10y ago
  Bikes need a lot less space than a car. Look at some videos of Copenhagen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGL80qx71g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGL80qx71g if cars were that close to each other they'd be intersecting. > It's easier and faster to stop a 25mph car than a 25mph bike Really? Is it that much different? Nothing I found was particularly conclusive but didn't suggest much of a difference.

They take up less space and result in less pollution and a healthier population. In what way do you think they're about the same?

by IanCal 10y ago

They take up less space and result in less pollution and a healthier population. In what way do you think they're about the same?

kobeya 10y ago

I get the sense you are imagining this: https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/amsterdam.jpg https://bicycledutch.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/amsterdam.j... But the pragmatic reality is that in much of the world that has had such a bike culture, you will eventually end up with this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QSXDqDni9VE/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QSXDqDni9VE/maxresdefault.jpg Cars, although far less dense, are objectively better than the latter case. Safer, quieter, less polluting.

CalRobert 10y ago
"Cars, although far less dense, are objectively better than the latter case. Safer, quieter, less polluting. " Citation desperately needed. Also, keep in mind there are different ways of defining "safe". Cars are only "safe" inasmuch as they are safer for the occupants and incredibly dangerous for everyone else around. If we considered harm to people _outside_ the car we would view them as much more dangerous (and walking, motorcycling, cycling, etc as being much safer)
erpellan 10y ago
Safer? Debatable. There are no cars in that picture, which represent the largest danger to moped riders. You'd also need a road 10x wider for the same volume of traffic.

paulddraper 10y ago

I was mostly referring to congestion. (They certainly have advantages like exercise, noise, and storage space.) Bicycles are physically smaller, but they still need a substantial safety zone, just like cars. It's easier and faster to stop a 25mph car than a 25mph bike.

IanCal 10y ago
Bikes need a lot less space than a car. Look at some videos of Copenhagen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGL80qx71g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGL80qx71g if cars were that close to each other they'd be intersecting. > It's easier and faster to stop a 25mph car than a 25mph bike Really? Is it that much different? Nothing I found was particularly conclusive but didn't suggest much of a difference.