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Even though Scala might not be the answer, I still think we need a replacement for Java. All the Java enterprise projects I know suffer from the same problems;

by cygned 10y ago

Even though Scala might not be the answer, I still think we need a replacement for Java. All the Java enterprise projects I know suffer from the same problems; incredible complex project structures, a lot of "dead code" (e.g. empty Java interfaces), XML, money being burned for engineers fighting with Tomcat or Glassfish, slow database operations because of an ORM centric development and so on. I am not sure, what's going to be the solution but from my perspective Java as a language needs to be replaced.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Java 8 is much better for programmer's sanity. If you could force people to jump to that, and completely burn down some areas of the ecosystem (like XML overuse), maybe Java could actually be saved. Alas, I think backtracking on parts of the ecosystem is a hard thing, and I don't see it happening soon.
- cygned 10y ago
  I'd say, in the end it comes down to two problems; Java's verbosity and the fact, that a lot of frameworks do "magic", things happen without explcitely asking for it (the JPA is a nice example for that).
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Adding: I was messaged by someone who interpreted my comment as if I was saying "Java 8 is better than Scala". That's not what I meant. I mean that with Java 7 and 8, Java the language is more bearable than it was in the past, so Java the language is in less dire need of being replaced by something else.
allengeorge 10y ago
I thought Go was the replacement for Java.
- hnbroseph 10y ago
  did you write a bunch of go?
  - allengeorge 10y ago
    Yes, actually I have. It fits in a niche which a lot of Java was previously used (backend servers).
usrusr 10y ago
I don't see anything in your list of complaints that is about the actual language, not meekly about the culture surrounding it. The established perceptions of "best practices" are much more in need of a shakeup than the language itself. Maybe replacing the language is the only way to achieve that change, but then it would be more like a necessary sacrifice than a goal on its own.
- cygned 10y ago
  That's a true point. Maybe it's more about the culture. What I actually don't like about Java the language is the boilerplate; it's a very verbose language. I don't like that anymore. I am infected with LISP now.

by cygned 10y ago

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Java 8 is much better for programmer's sanity. If you could force people to jump to that, and completely burn down some areas of the ecosystem (like XML overuse), maybe Java could actually be saved. Alas, I think backtracking on parts of the ecosystem is a hard thing, and I don't see it happening soon.

cygned 10y ago
I'd say, in the end it comes down to two problems; Java's verbosity and the fact, that a lot of frameworks do "magic", things happen without explcitely asking for it (the JPA is a nice example for that).
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Adding: I was messaged by someone who interpreted my comment as if I was saying "Java 8 is better than Scala". That's not what I meant. I mean that with Java 7 and 8, Java the language is more bearable than it was in the past, so Java the language is in less dire need of being replaced by something else.

allengeorge 10y ago

I thought Go was the replacement for Java.

hnbroseph 10y ago
did you write a bunch of go?
- allengeorge 10y ago
  Yes, actually I have. It fits in a niche which a lot of Java was previously used (backend servers).

usrusr 10y ago

I don't see anything in your list of complaints that is about the actual language, not meekly about the culture surrounding it. The established perceptions of "best practices" are much more in need of a shakeup than the language itself. Maybe replacing the language is the only way to achieve that change, but then it would be more like a necessary sacrifice than a goal on its own.

cygned 10y ago
That's a true point. Maybe it's more about the culture. What I actually don't like about Java the language is the boilerplate; it's a very verbose language. I don't like that anymore. I am infected with LISP now.