6 ms·

It's not—and anyone who says that it is is deluding themselves. I think we've reached the point where ridesharing apps are 100% a commodity: there's no real pr

by envy2 10y ago

It's not—and anyone who says that it is is deluding themselves. I think we've reached the point where ridesharing apps are 100% a commodity: there's no real product differentiation, so I'll choose based on price and how long it'll take the car to arrive. Lyft drivers seem 'happier,' but that hasn't translated into anything significantly different for me in terms of ride quality. This won't be a popular opinion, but I think most drivers—on both services—are too entitled and have unrealistic expectations. Having a driver's license and a car is not rare in the US: it's a job that requires less specialized training/skill than being a fry cook at McDonald's, and should be compensated accordingly. The drivers who are happy are the ones who recognize this and do it to make some extra cash in their spare time after a 'real' job; the ones who are upset are trying to make their living driving. While I sympathize with the latter breed, they're in a dying occupation that's about to be automated out of existence within the next ~5 years.

hackernewsacct 10y ago
There are some flaws in your assumptions. You assume everyone that drives has the same license and that driving requires little skill. Some speciality driving requires skills. These drivers have to have Class A CDL licenses and have to pass training. I highly doubt automated vechiles will obselete every driving job that requires a CDL license in the next 5 years. Eventually? Quite possibly. But in 5 years? Most likely no. I'm not claiming every Uber / Lyft driver has a CDL license (most probably don't). But to claim driving requires no special skill is false. There are certain situations that require very specialized driving skills.
- envy2 10y ago
  I'd be shocked if any significant number of UberX and Lyft drivers had a CDL. Even in NYC, where a TLC license and commercial insurance is required, drivers still don't need a CDL. Some driving definitely requires specialized skills, but driving a Prius around SF or $random_american_city isn't it. Autonomous vehicles have gotten quite good, and I can easily see them filling the taxi/Uber use case by 2022.
  - hackernewsacct 10y ago
    You missed the part I said I wasn't claminig Uber / Lyft drivers had CDL licenses and mentioned I thought most wouldn't. Thanks for the downvote and reply to something I didn't claim.
username223 10y ago
> “Are there no prisons?” said the Spirit, turning on him for the last time with his own words. “Are there no workhouses?”
bad_user 10y ago
> drivers who are happy are the ones who recognize this and do it to make some extra cash in their spare time after a 'real' job; the ones who are upset are trying to make their living driving. This is also Uber's supposed mentality, but you are wrong and Uber is misleading the public. If a part time job is profitable, then doing it full time would also be profitable. The biggest lie in their marketing campaign is their claim that Uber is about ride sharing, but that's serious bullshit meant for fooling drivers and legislators, because the driver cannot control the passengers' destination and they take a pay cut when rejecting orders. You see, the drivers that are upset are those that have done the math and realize that they cannot cover the maintenance costs for their personal car, along with what they lose in time spent in commuting and maintenance and still make a worthwhile profit. At this point Uber survives because they found enough gullible drivers that waste time and add serious mileage to their own cars for Uber's profit. But at some point the bill kicks in.
- envy2 10y ago
  > At this point Uber survives because they found enough gullible drivers that waste time and add serious miles to their own cars for Uber's profit. But at some point the bill kicks in. Absolutely—at some point, the drivers all wise up, there aren't any new gullible people to replace them, the supply of drivers falls, and Uber and Lyft and their ilk have to raise fares. The only real question is whether this happens before autonomous vehicles can replace the drivers entirely. Uber, at least, is betting that it doesn't, and I think they're right.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > If a part time job is profitable, then doing it full time would also be profitable. That's making a major assumption. A lot of times aren't as profitable as others, and there might not be enough profitable hours for a full time job, but enough profitable hours for a part time job. For instance, Friday nights in downtown at last call might be very profitable for 4 hours, which would make perfect sense as a part time job. If you need to make a certain amount of money, you might be forced to work hours that are a net drain on your finances, such as 2pm on a Tuesday afternoon.
petra 10y ago
For timesharing be non-commodity , they need to have shared routes with multiple passengers. Uber and Lyft aren't terribly good at that. But it seems that via(ridewithvia) and probably chariot(which was bought by Ford) do manage to do that - with their average passenger density most likely larger than 4 . Another proof they aren't commodities - they don't need all those tricks with drivers - their drivers are regular employees, probably well compensated.
mahyarm 10y ago
TBH, driving is a harder skill to learn than being a McDonalds fry cook.
- ryhamz 10y ago
  So is speaking fluent English (even as a native speaker). The thing is that both are so common that they aren't really skills in the US market. Knowing how to drive is nearly ubiquitous in the US in the 18+ year old population. So, let's say the metric is "additional training required after age 18". Driving: likely none. McDonalds: likely a little!
  - erroneousfunk 10y ago
    Being a professional driver (even aided by GPS and Waze) and speaking fluent English are absolutely valuable skills on the US market. One in five US residents speaks a language other than English at home. Of those that speak a language other than English, only 58% speak English "very well" Older people are less likely to speak English "very well" than younger people. https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acs-22.pdf https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acs-22.pdf So when you're looking at the bottom 10% or so of the workforce, speaking fluent English is a HUGELY marketable job skill. Also, yes, a lot of people can drive. But, again, we're looking at the bottom segment of the workforce. It's easier to find "absolute numbers" rather than percentages, but according to one source only 89% of US adults are licensed to drive http://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/11/07/americans-arent-as-dependent-on-cars-as-you-might-think/ http://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/11/07/americans-arent-as-dep... Multiple studies of the prevalence of government issued photo IDs (not just driver's licenses) corresponds to this: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/11/eric-holder/eric-holder-says-recent-studies-show-25-percent-af/ http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/11/eric-... And if you want to drive for Uber, you need to meet Uber's requirements. You need to be 21 or older. You need to have 3 years of driving experience (you can't just go out and get a license if you decide you want to drive for Uber). Clean driving record, background check, no criminal history at all in the last 7 years... You need to have a clean 4-door sedan in good condition that can pass an inspection. Even if you manage to jump through all those hoops, driving for Uber can be customer service in the extreme. Sure, I can drive myself to the grocery store and back like a champ, but Uber drivers are driving on unfamiliar roads to unknown destinations every day. And they're doing it with a paying customer in the backseat. I live in Boston, and there are certain sections of town where the GPS routinely doesn't work/jumps around, and those sections happen to be a minefield of winding one-way streets and construction. How do you deal with GPS issues? Surprise construction? Traffic that Waze didn't predict? How do you mollify customers when things go wrong? Can you drive defensively and still make a timely arrival to your destination? I've taken a lot of Ubers and have seen some REALLY bad drivers, and some really fantastic ones that handled the car like a pro. My point is, working as a cook at McDonalds requires far fewer resources and job skills than driving an Uber, hands down. You could make a more compelling argument for working the register, but cooking fries is trivial and requires very few skills or resources.

by envy2 10y ago

hackernewsacct 10y ago

There are some flaws in your assumptions. You assume everyone that drives has the same license and that driving requires little skill. Some speciality driving requires skills. These drivers have to have Class A CDL licenses and have to pass training. I highly doubt automated vechiles will obselete every driving job that requires a CDL license in the next 5 years. Eventually? Quite possibly. But in 5 years? Most likely no. I'm not claiming every Uber / Lyft driver has a CDL license (most probably don't). But to claim driving requires no special skill is false. There are certain situations that require very specialized driving skills.

envy2 10y ago
I'd be shocked if any significant number of UberX and Lyft drivers had a CDL. Even in NYC, where a TLC license and commercial insurance is required, drivers still don't need a CDL. Some driving definitely requires specialized skills, but driving a Prius around SF or $random_american_city isn't it. Autonomous vehicles have gotten quite good, and I can easily see them filling the taxi/Uber use case by 2022.
- hackernewsacct 10y ago
  You missed the part I said I wasn't claminig Uber / Lyft drivers had CDL licenses and mentioned I thought most wouldn't. Thanks for the downvote and reply to something I didn't claim.

username223 10y ago

> “Are there no prisons?” said the Spirit, turning on him for the last time with his own words. “Are there no workhouses?”

bad_user 10y ago

> drivers who are happy are the ones who recognize this and do it to make some extra cash in their spare time after a 'real' job; the ones who are upset are trying to make their living driving. This is also Uber's supposed mentality, but you are wrong and Uber is misleading the public. If a part time job is profitable, then doing it full time would also be profitable. The biggest lie in their marketing campaign is their claim that Uber is about ride sharing, but that's serious bullshit meant for fooling drivers and legislators, because the driver cannot control the passengers' destination and they take a pay cut when rejecting orders. You see, the drivers that are upset are those that have done the math and realize that they cannot cover the maintenance costs for their personal car, along with what they lose in time spent in commuting and maintenance and still make a worthwhile profit. At this point Uber survives because they found enough gullible drivers that waste time and add serious mileage to their own cars for Uber's profit. But at some point the bill kicks in.

envy2 10y ago
> At this point Uber survives because they found enough gullible drivers that waste time and add serious miles to their own cars for Uber's profit. But at some point the bill kicks in. Absolutely—at some point, the drivers all wise up, there aren't any new gullible people to replace them, the supply of drivers falls, and Uber and Lyft and their ilk have to raise fares. The only real question is whether this happens before autonomous vehicles can replace the drivers entirely. Uber, at least, is betting that it doesn't, and I think they're right.
jimmywanger 10y ago
> If a part time job is profitable, then doing it full time would also be profitable. That's making a major assumption. A lot of times aren't as profitable as others, and there might not be enough profitable hours for a full time job, but enough profitable hours for a part time job. For instance, Friday nights in downtown at last call might be very profitable for 4 hours, which would make perfect sense as a part time job. If you need to make a certain amount of money, you might be forced to work hours that are a net drain on your finances, such as 2pm on a Tuesday afternoon.

petra 10y ago

For timesharing be non-commodity , they need to have shared routes with multiple passengers. Uber and Lyft aren't terribly good at that. But it seems that via(ridewithvia) and probably chariot(which was bought by Ford) do manage to do that - with their average passenger density most likely larger than 4 . Another proof they aren't commodities - they don't need all those tricks with drivers - their drivers are regular employees, probably well compensated.

mahyarm 10y ago

TBH, driving is a harder skill to learn than being a McDonalds fry cook.

ryhamz 10y ago
So is speaking fluent English (even as a native speaker). The thing is that both are so common that they aren't really skills in the US market. Knowing how to drive is nearly ubiquitous in the US in the 18+ year old population. So, let's say the metric is "additional training required after age 18". Driving: likely none. McDonalds: likely a little!
- erroneousfunk 10y ago
  Being a professional driver (even aided by GPS and Waze) and speaking fluent English are absolutely valuable skills on the US market. One in five US residents speaks a language other than English at home. Of those that speak a language other than English, only 58% speak English "very well" Older people are less likely to speak English "very well" than younger people. https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acs-22.pdf https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acs-22.pdf So when you're looking at the bottom 10% or so of the workforce, speaking fluent English is a HUGELY marketable job skill. Also, yes, a lot of people can drive. But, again, we're looking at the bottom segment of the workforce. It's easier to find "absolute numbers" rather than percentages, but according to one source only 89% of US adults are licensed to drive http://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/11/07/americans-arent-as-dependent-on-cars-as-you-might-think/ http://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/11/07/americans-arent-as-dep... Multiple studies of the prevalence of government issued photo IDs (not just driver's licenses) corresponds to this: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/11/eric-holder/eric-holder-says-recent-studies-show-25-percent-af/ http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/11/eric-... And if you want to drive for Uber, you need to meet Uber's requirements. You need to be 21 or older. You need to have 3 years of driving experience (you can't just go out and get a license if you decide you want to drive for Uber). Clean driving record, background check, no criminal history at all in the last 7 years... You need to have a clean 4-door sedan in good condition that can pass an inspection. Even if you manage to jump through all those hoops, driving for Uber can be customer service in the extreme. Sure, I can drive myself to the grocery store and back like a champ, but Uber drivers are driving on unfamiliar roads to unknown destinations every day. And they're doing it with a paying customer in the backseat. I live in Boston, and there are certain sections of town where the GPS routinely doesn't work/jumps around, and those sections happen to be a minefield of winding one-way streets and construction. How do you deal with GPS issues? Surprise construction? Traffic that Waze didn't predict? How do you mollify customers when things go wrong? Can you drive defensively and still make a timely arrival to your destination? I've taken a lot of Ubers and have seen some REALLY bad drivers, and some really fantastic ones that handled the car like a pro. My point is, working as a cook at McDonalds requires far fewer resources and job skills than driving an Uber, hands down. You could make a more compelling argument for working the register, but cooking fries is trivial and requires very few skills or resources.