5 ms·

Snap's data has real value, like Facebook's. For most of their users, they have a large portion of their phone's contacts (whether you opt in or not is irreleva

by iLoch 10y ago

Snap's data has real value, like Facebook's. For most of their users, they have a large portion of their phone's contacts (whether you opt in or not is irrelevant due to your contacts opting into this + a network effect.) They also have media preferences based on what articles you're watching/reading. They also know who you're most interested in (who's stories you're watching most, and who you send/receive snaps from the most) and what their interests are, so they can potentially infer interests from that too, even if you don't read articles. They have location data turned on for most of their users thanks to geo filters, and if they've been "good" data miners, they're sending your facial mapping home when you do a face filter effect. I'd be surprised if Snap doesn't have the most comprehensive faces database out there with all the angles they get from selfies (though they may not have the most unique faces.) Oh yeah, and they also have the perceived privacy that Facebook doesn't have. Deleting messages doesn't actually delete them, but it just feels better when they're gone, so people are more candid on Snapchat. Not to mention they've also done an excellent job monetizing their features thus far, with very little intrusion that I've noticed as a user. You get the occasional ad when you're looking through stories, but most of the money is coming from things like sponsored content and geo filters, which users don't complain about.

pdog 10y ago
There's a lot of misinformation in this reply. > ...they're sending your facial mapping home when you do a face filter effect... Lenses are generated on the device. They're not uploaded to Snapchat servers. > Deleting messages doesn't actually delete them... From the support site: "Snapchat servers are designed to automatically delete Snaps after they've been viewed by all recipients." https://support.snapchat.com/en-US/a/when-are-snaps-chats-deleted https://support.snapchat.com/en-US/a/when-are-snaps-chats-de...
- iLoch 10y ago
  > Lenses are generated on the device. They're not uploaded to Snapchat servers. Context is very important when you're quoting people: "... and if they've been "good" data miners..." And regardless of whether or not a filter is generated on device, facial data is being used, and so I'm weary that it could be sent to a server. If it's not, fine, but that's subject to change. > From the support site: "Snapchat servers are designed to automatically delete Snaps after they've been viewed by all recipients." So when authorities get involved, I'm sure Snap says "sorry, can't do anything for you"?
  - smogcutter 10y ago
    > So when authorities get involved, I'm sure Snap says "sorry, can't do anything for you"? Why not? Obviously it's nonfree software so neither of us really know, but the alternative is that they're simply lying. Maybe they are, but that sounds like a ticking time bomb that would destroy them when it gets out. And it would absolutely get out, especially if they try to monetize it as an above poster suggested.
    - iLoch 10y ago
      I wouldn't consider it a ticking time bomb. They provide a (false) guarantee to the end user that other users won't be able to capture whatever you sent beyond the time given for them to view it. (This is false because anyone can take a picture of their phone's screen.) Users would understand the very reasonable difference between users having general access to this "expired" data vs. the police. Most people should expect that the police have special privileges in this case, and I don't think there'd be any backlash if this became broader knowledge. Their promise to their users is to provide them with the secrecy of a "secret note", not government proof secure encrypted messaging.
  - H4CK3RM4N 10y ago
    The number I've seen around is that Snap keeps messages on it's servers for two weeks for the authorities(presumably that's also their timeout for a user to download the image).
angryasian 10y ago
>For most of their users, they have a large portion of their phone's contacts Just about every app can collect this information. >Snap's data has real value My only disagreement is that its all fake usernames. The friend graph is not as accurate as its like Kik, Myspace, Instagram and twitter in that people will add random people from all different sources, and make connections as there are no real threats to "real life" and "online life". with facebook you at least have a more signals into a "real life" graph and with twitter you have an interest graph. With Snap I don't think either of their signals (stories, friends) are as good.
- iLoch 10y ago
  > My only disagreement is that its all fake usernames Plenty of people have added their real names in addition to their usernames. But even if they don't, contact lists often have real names. I'm not sure if that's how you use Snapchat, but personally (and I may be in the minority) I only add people I've either met, or who are in some capacity a celebrity. You can also typically see how close a friend someone is by how many connections they have to other friends in a user's network. Snap users (like Facebook users, I think?) also tend to mostly interact with people they're actually friends with. So at the very least I think the data Snap has is at least as high quality as FB's (and I'm not at all disappointed we're comparing more with Facebook than Twitter, as the latter has had a much more positive market story.)
  - angryasian 10y ago
    I know both of our experiences are anecdotal, but the way I see people asking for their snap is pretty lax. Snap or Kik is how I see in many ways the first contact that millenials ask for passive connections whether it be online or irl. For more closer connections its a phone number and fb messenger in the US. >close a friend someone is by how many connections they have to other friends in a user's network Again every messaging app that asks for contacts has these connections. FB messenger, Line, Wechat etc has more data points than snap when it comes to this. >I'm not at all disappointed we're comparing more with Facebook I would actually compare it closer to twitter. If they are going in the direction of media as they've already announced they are building an interest graph.
jonknee 10y ago
Twitter has all the same data and they still can't make money at scale. It's hard, only two companies have done it.
Aunche 10y ago
For what it's worth, I talked to a Snapchat engineer at a job fair, and he told me that Snapchat is trying to focus on new products and features (like Spectacles) more so than trying to monetize their data.
- mrlatinos 10y ago
  I've heard that. Snap considers itself akin to a camera company. Will be interesting to see where things go, but I don't like the valuation.
- jboggan 10y ago
  And Snapchat recruiters are talking to me about coming over and helping their data scientists productionize their models and monetize their data. Why not both?

by iLoch 10y ago

pdog 10y ago

There's a lot of misinformation in this reply. > ...they're sending your facial mapping home when you do a face filter effect... Lenses are generated on the device. They're not uploaded to Snapchat servers. > Deleting messages doesn't actually delete them... From the support site: "Snapchat servers are designed to automatically delete Snaps after they've been viewed by all recipients." https://support.snapchat.com/en-US/a/when-are-snaps-chats-deleted https://support.snapchat.com/en-US/a/when-are-snaps-chats-de...

iLoch 10y ago
> Lenses are generated on the device. They're not uploaded to Snapchat servers. Context is very important when you're quoting people: "... and if they've been "good" data miners..." And regardless of whether or not a filter is generated on device, facial data is being used, and so I'm weary that it could be sent to a server. If it's not, fine, but that's subject to change. > From the support site: "Snapchat servers are designed to automatically delete Snaps after they've been viewed by all recipients." So when authorities get involved, I'm sure Snap says "sorry, can't do anything for you"?
- smogcutter 10y ago
  > So when authorities get involved, I'm sure Snap says "sorry, can't do anything for you"? Why not? Obviously it's nonfree software so neither of us really know, but the alternative is that they're simply lying. Maybe they are, but that sounds like a ticking time bomb that would destroy them when it gets out. And it would absolutely get out, especially if they try to monetize it as an above poster suggested.
  - iLoch 10y ago
    I wouldn't consider it a ticking time bomb. They provide a (false) guarantee to the end user that other users won't be able to capture whatever you sent beyond the time given for them to view it. (This is false because anyone can take a picture of their phone's screen.) Users would understand the very reasonable difference between users having general access to this "expired" data vs. the police. Most people should expect that the police have special privileges in this case, and I don't think there'd be any backlash if this became broader knowledge. Their promise to their users is to provide them with the secrecy of a "secret note", not government proof secure encrypted messaging.
- H4CK3RM4N 10y ago
  The number I've seen around is that Snap keeps messages on it's servers for two weeks for the authorities(presumably that's also their timeout for a user to download the image).

angryasian 10y ago

>For most of their users, they have a large portion of their phone's contacts Just about every app can collect this information. >Snap's data has real value My only disagreement is that its all fake usernames. The friend graph is not as accurate as its like Kik, Myspace, Instagram and twitter in that people will add random people from all different sources, and make connections as there are no real threats to "real life" and "online life". with facebook you at least have a more signals into a "real life" graph and with twitter you have an interest graph. With Snap I don't think either of their signals (stories, friends) are as good.

iLoch 10y ago
> My only disagreement is that its all fake usernames Plenty of people have added their real names in addition to their usernames. But even if they don't, contact lists often have real names. I'm not sure if that's how you use Snapchat, but personally (and I may be in the minority) I only add people I've either met, or who are in some capacity a celebrity. You can also typically see how close a friend someone is by how many connections they have to other friends in a user's network. Snap users (like Facebook users, I think?) also tend to mostly interact with people they're actually friends with. So at the very least I think the data Snap has is at least as high quality as FB's (and I'm not at all disappointed we're comparing more with Facebook than Twitter, as the latter has had a much more positive market story.)
- angryasian 10y ago
  I know both of our experiences are anecdotal, but the way I see people asking for their snap is pretty lax. Snap or Kik is how I see in many ways the first contact that millenials ask for passive connections whether it be online or irl. For more closer connections its a phone number and fb messenger in the US. >close a friend someone is by how many connections they have to other friends in a user's network Again every messaging app that asks for contacts has these connections. FB messenger, Line, Wechat etc has more data points than snap when it comes to this. >I'm not at all disappointed we're comparing more with Facebook I would actually compare it closer to twitter. If they are going in the direction of media as they've already announced they are building an interest graph.

jonknee 10y ago

Twitter has all the same data and they still can't make money at scale. It's hard, only two companies have done it.

Aunche 10y ago

For what it's worth, I talked to a Snapchat engineer at a job fair, and he told me that Snapchat is trying to focus on new products and features (like Spectacles) more so than trying to monetize their data.

mrlatinos 10y ago
I've heard that. Snap considers itself akin to a camera company. Will be interesting to see where things go, but I don't like the valuation.
jboggan 10y ago
And Snapchat recruiters are talking to me about coming over and helping their data scientists productionize their models and monetize their data. Why not both?