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I read Guardian from time to time and while there is some (renewed) distrust to democracy, not sure it really comes from leftists (I cannot track all journalist

by js8 10y ago

I read Guardian from time to time and while there is some (renewed) distrust to democracy, not sure it really comes from leftists (I cannot track all journalist's political views). AFAICT the ones that I recognize as leftist (e.g. Monbiot) haven't changed their mind at all. In my experience, distrust in democracy is pretty similar on left/right spectrum, mostly correlated with elitism. Many (although a minority) of university graduates are (ostensibly) leftist yet elitist. It also has been shown that people who are in power (for example ruling party, members of parliament, etc.) are more likely to oppose (direct) democracy. That's probably the strongest predictor. I don't believe that people who brought the Brexit referendum had democracy in their hearts, unfortunately. I have seen examples of politicians proposing a specific referendum because they thought the idea has majority support, and refusing referendum in other instances (for example, I doubt conservatives want referendum for Scottish secession in case of Brexit). But regardless, I suggest you educate your friends. Democracy is the leftist idea (because it treats everybody as having equal power), this goes back to origin of the word left/right in the French parliament.

mike_hearn 10y ago
It also has been shown that people who are in power (for example ruling party, members of parliament, etc.) are more likely to oppose (direct) democracy. That's probably the strongest predictor. I'm not sure that correlates with what's happening in the UK. The Conservatives are in power and held the referendum and are now the party that is united behind implementing it, despite that it campaigned to remain. Labour is not in power and they're the ones trying to slow it down (SNP of course, also not in power, and united in trying to damn the rest of the UK as normal). I have seen examples of politicians proposing a specific referendum because they thought the idea has majority support, and refusing referendum in other instances (for example, I doubt conservatives want referendum for Scottish secession in case of Brexit). It was Cameron who made the Scottish indyref happen, wasn't it? Despite that the Conservatives are unionists. Again, I'm not sure your argument matches how events played out. They probably wouldn't want one right now because it was only a few years since the last one and polls don't indicate any major change, besides, the civil service wouldn't be able to implement both Brexit and Scexit simultaneously.

by js8 10y ago

mike_hearn 10y ago

It also has been shown that people who are in power (for example ruling party, members of parliament, etc.) are more likely to oppose (direct) democracy. That's probably the strongest predictor. I'm not sure that correlates with what's happening in the UK. The Conservatives are in power and held the referendum and are now the party that is united behind implementing it, despite that it campaigned to remain. Labour is not in power and they're the ones trying to slow it down (SNP of course, also not in power, and united in trying to damn the rest of the UK as normal). I have seen examples of politicians proposing a specific referendum because they thought the idea has majority support, and refusing referendum in other instances (for example, I doubt conservatives want referendum for Scottish secession in case of Brexit). It was Cameron who made the Scottish indyref happen, wasn't it? Despite that the Conservatives are unionists. Again, I'm not sure your argument matches how events played out. They probably wouldn't want one right now because it was only a few years since the last one and polls don't indicate any major change, besides, the civil service wouldn't be able to implement both Brexit and Scexit simultaneously.