6 ms·

Rate my startup: Invoice.ly - no bull* invoicing

37 points by middayc 16y ago

rythie 16y ago
I suggest fixing the jagged edges on your logo.
- middayc 16y ago
  Thanks :) I didn't notice them but now I do.
nsoonhui 16y ago
What? No OpenID support? OpenID should be the first login system you implement. I would not sign up "yet another account".
- middayc 16y ago
  I like OpenID but my fear is that only tech people use/know what OpenID is. I will think about this. Thanks for your feedback! :)
  - KERMIT 16y ago
    It's okay that you're not using OpenID. It's a pain in the ass to use. It's one of the reasons I don't like using StackOverflow, for instance.
    - kevinelliott 16y ago
      I agree, even as a super technology addict, I find OpenID to be super annoying, and I even have a friend who use to be the OpenID advocate. Heaven forbid I should tell him that though :)
- jasonkester 16y ago
  Please ignore this if you're building anything for regular people. OpenID is confusing and painful to the end user, and you'll lose a significant fraction of your potential userbase if you don't let them sign up for an account with their familiar username/password. There's only one OpenID site that's valuable enough to me to jump through the constant hoops required to setup & maintain an OpenID account, and that's StackOverflow. So unless your thing is obviously going to be more valuable to me than SO, you won't get my signup if you force me to use OpenID.
Charuru 16y ago
Whoa, the orange and blue clashes horribly on your sign up for free link. You should also be spending your precious video time telling us why we should use your product rather than demonstrating the interface. Interface guides are for users who are already customers, not prospects.
- middayc 16y ago
  I really execute not only generally like "release early" theories :). Videos are simple and without music/speech for now since things are iterating and I will probably have to make new videos next week. So I want to keep this light and still there to demonstrate app to people without them signing in. About the color-clash. I will change it and consult a designer here, although I must admit I don't see it :) must be my monitor, or my eyes :) Thanks!
paraschopra 16y ago
A couple of points of feedback: 1. Your target market (small businesses) won't like (or understand) your tag line. Seriously, get rid of "no bull*". What does it mean anyway? It is not cool. 2. Your page is confusing and saying too many things. Your screenshot with so many values is frightening. 3. What is mini version? Is it a new terminology that I haven't heard of?
- middayc 16y ago
  Hi, 1. First. I agree with you and I intended to iterate to more serious/assuring tag-line with time. I am sort of testing love/hate vs. indifference with it in a sense "let's see what happens". I certainly like it more than some typical tag-lines but I understand it might be bad idea to general public. Your feedback about this is certainly appreciated. 2. Huh. I tried to make a clear/minimal page, but I guess I didn't succeed that well. Do you have anything specific that is confusing. About screenshot, I like the (hopefully) "effective" looks of it in same way I like looks of gmail. I will further work on this. Thanks for bringing it out. 3. mini as in minimal :). I will think about more appropriate terms. I talk about "mini" version because there will also be "not-mini". Thanks a lot for your feedback!
  - perokreco 16y ago
    3. Basic/Starter are for example much more clear than mini.
    - middayc 16y ago
      Thanks. I will change it.
ErrantX 16y ago
Either say "no bullshit" properly or drop it. You can definitely get away with that line in many arenas now - if you are targeting the "indie"/liberal types it will hold sway (so long as you hold up to it!). However outside that it might put people off. I'd work a little more on the app design; space it all out more and go for a "clean" look so that your screenshot can appear less busy (it draws the eye a little too much on the landing page). The app itself is a little confusing (but looks a good start nonetheless). First the colours are not to my personal taste; you have too many on the page for a start (stick with 3 colors and 5 shades if possible). More importantly they are all pastels - which becomes hard on the eye. I recommend spending some time on http://www.colourlovers.com http://www.colourlovers.com and pick a palette with the proper ratio of bold/highlight/background colours As to the app - it's a little difficult to navigate initially; it was a bit unintuitive adding "partners" especially as it is not clear what a partner is (this isn't typical terminology in most places - it sounds perhaps law centric?). I quite like your landing page though; apart from the screenshot it is pretty solid. As pointed out you should clarify what mini means (possibly just scrap that terminology for the moment - I guess you plan to add paid-for plans later so you can always bring that in at a later stage). Maybe call it beta for now.
- scorpion032 16y ago
  > Either say "no bullshit" properly or drop it. Or, you know, say "BS Free invoicing".
  - middayc 16y ago
    hehe :) haven't thought of that. I also like the form of the sentence better than what I used.
  - trafficlight 16y ago
    I read that as "Free invoicing that's bullshit."
- middayc 16y ago
  It's somewhat a joke "no bull*" and then a fox on the right. It might also have additional meanings :) bull invoicing vs fox invoicing As I said to the paraschopra, this is sort of a test/joke and it will change according also to the feedback of people like you. So your comment is appreciated and will be part of the equation. about app design. Thanks, we will try to improve it / make it less busy (although I don't like the Basecamp "template"). I want more focus on "effective" / aka gmail and similar apps. We will also iterate on color usage. Thanks for the link. About "partners" , you notice a bug in screenshot that I missed. That is the old screenshot. App now uses term "Clients". I am fixing the screenshot imediatelly. THANKS! About front page. You are right about mini, there will be not-mini :). I will try to make that part less consfusing. Thanks a lot for very constructive feedback!
KERMIT 16y ago
It's too bad you're using a .ly domain. The mere association with Libya, and the fact that you're dealing with invoicing, makes me very uncomfortable.
- Dirt_McGirt 16y ago
  Not to mention that it's a pretty lame trend that's bound to be over soon, and then it'll just look out of touch.
  - middayc 16y ago
    Well. invoice.xy where xy is anything that makes the whole domain pronounceable is hard to find. So I thought it was a good catch. I am aware that something.ly is a trend that will be over yes.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  Im not sure anyone will really make the association with Libya (I, for example, didn't know off hand that was where it was for). I think you're right it is a current fad - and one that will end soon (all these fads are driven from the lack of available "good" domains I guess). But I am not sure it is a fatal choice; of course .ly is going to be lower performing than .com/.org/etc but I doubt by much - it also has the advantage of being quite "natural" to add/type.
- middayc 16y ago
  Well, "it's just a name" :) servers are in US and I am in EU if that makes you feel any better.
jsvaughan 16y ago
Um - I can think of loads of "web 2" invoicing sites blinksale, zoho, freshbooks, less accounting... the web is full of them. (e.g. http://freelanceswitch.com/money/7-online-invoicing-apps-for-freelancers/ http://freelanceswitch.com/money/7-online-invoicing-apps-for...). You could probably find 15-20 in about half an hour. I'm sure you've spent a lot of time on this but seriously you are dreaming if you think this is going to make any money.
- middayc 16y ago
  Yes, there are many invoicing apps out there. There is a thin line between being brave and being stupid :) . I am aware I am walking that line here.
- lunaru 16y ago
  It's no exaggeration to say that there are probably more invoicing apps than there are URL shorteners. Having run one for nearly two years, I can say that there are certain key differentiators that customers in this market are looking for. For starters, "simple" and "no bull*" do not have as strong a pull in invoicing as say in project management. When it comes to financial applications, users are going to expect some level of sophistication. I strongly advise the OP against leaning only in simplicity as a key differentiator, since TBH all 20+ competitors in the market could claim the same thing. To the OP if you're seriously committed, shoot me an email and I can give you some pointers that I've learned over the last 2 years.
  - middayc 16y ago
    >> For starters, "simple" and "no bull" do not have as strong a pull in invoicing as say in project management. Thanks for the info. >> I strongly advise the OP against leaning only in simplicity as a key differentiator, since TBH all 20+ competitors in the market could claim the same thing. Thanks again. Yes, I can see that you are right. Our main* focus is "efficiency" (not claiming that it's a specially god focus, but it is our main) With this I mean speed & and focus on functionality/work-flow and less on decoration / packaging. As for all webapps, simplicity is a very important factor to, but I can agree with you that it's not a good differentiator. Invoice.ly doesn't have a goal to become a service accountant would use. But it has more in terms of what a SMB owner would use than invoicing. Invoice.ly is US adaptation of app I made for my (EU based) country. Besides "mini" that you can see there is also a "norm" which will offer a more rich set of features. I'm definitely serious, where can I find your email? My is janko DOT itm AT gmail.
davidw 16y ago
I didn't take more than a cursory look, but do you handle other currencies?
- middayc 16y ago
  No in this version not. But it is coming since a noticeable part of beta testers already need it.
  - tarunkotia 16y ago
    Nice work and all the very best. I had a question for you...How did you start distributing your application for "beta" testing? Thanks!
    - middayc 16y ago
      I basically contacted any people I knew from US, or the ones I thought might know people from US. I am a part of few smaller programmer communities where we know each-other.
Preseren 16y ago
Just wanted to add, that I'm using the localised version for Slovenia, and that it is a great app!
marknutter 16y ago
Hire or team up with a good graphic designer. If I had to choose between using this site and getballpark.com I think you know which one I would choose.

37 points by middayc 16y ago

rythie 16y ago

I suggest fixing the jagged edges on your logo.

middayc 16y ago
Thanks :) I didn't notice them but now I do.

nsoonhui 16y ago

What? No OpenID support? OpenID should be the first login system you implement. I would not sign up "yet another account".

middayc 16y ago
I like OpenID but my fear is that only tech people use/know what OpenID is. I will think about this. Thanks for your feedback! :)
- KERMIT 16y ago
  It's okay that you're not using OpenID. It's a pain in the ass to use. It's one of the reasons I don't like using StackOverflow, for instance.
  - kevinelliott 16y ago
    I agree, even as a super technology addict, I find OpenID to be super annoying, and I even have a friend who use to be the OpenID advocate. Heaven forbid I should tell him that though :)
jasonkester 16y ago
Please ignore this if you're building anything for regular people. OpenID is confusing and painful to the end user, and you'll lose a significant fraction of your potential userbase if you don't let them sign up for an account with their familiar username/password. There's only one OpenID site that's valuable enough to me to jump through the constant hoops required to setup & maintain an OpenID account, and that's StackOverflow. So unless your thing is obviously going to be more valuable to me than SO, you won't get my signup if you force me to use OpenID.

Charuru 16y ago

Whoa, the orange and blue clashes horribly on your sign up for free link. You should also be spending your precious video time telling us why we should use your product rather than demonstrating the interface. Interface guides are for users who are already customers, not prospects.

middayc 16y ago
I really execute not only generally like "release early" theories :). Videos are simple and without music/speech for now since things are iterating and I will probably have to make new videos next week. So I want to keep this light and still there to demonstrate app to people without them signing in. About the color-clash. I will change it and consult a designer here, although I must admit I don't see it :) must be my monitor, or my eyes :) Thanks!

paraschopra 16y ago

A couple of points of feedback: 1. Your target market (small businesses) won't like (or understand) your tag line. Seriously, get rid of "no bull*". What does it mean anyway? It is not cool. 2. Your page is confusing and saying too many things. Your screenshot with so many values is frightening. 3. What is mini version? Is it a new terminology that I haven't heard of?

middayc 16y ago
Hi, 1. First. I agree with you and I intended to iterate to more serious/assuring tag-line with time. I am sort of testing love/hate vs. indifference with it in a sense "let's see what happens". I certainly like it more than some typical tag-lines but I understand it might be bad idea to general public. Your feedback about this is certainly appreciated. 2. Huh. I tried to make a clear/minimal page, but I guess I didn't succeed that well. Do you have anything specific that is confusing. About screenshot, I like the (hopefully) "effective" looks of it in same way I like looks of gmail. I will further work on this. Thanks for bringing it out. 3. mini as in minimal :). I will think about more appropriate terms. I talk about "mini" version because there will also be "not-mini". Thanks a lot for your feedback!
- perokreco 16y ago
  3. Basic/Starter are for example much more clear than mini.
  - middayc 16y ago
    Thanks. I will change it.

ErrantX 16y ago

Either say "no bullshit" properly or drop it. You can definitely get away with that line in many arenas now - if you are targeting the "indie"/liberal types it will hold sway (so long as you hold up to it!). However outside that it might put people off. I'd work a little more on the app design; space it all out more and go for a "clean" look so that your screenshot can appear less busy (it draws the eye a little too much on the landing page). The app itself is a little confusing (but looks a good start nonetheless). First the colours are not to my personal taste; you have too many on the page for a start (stick with 3 colors and 5 shades if possible). More importantly they are all pastels - which becomes hard on the eye. I recommend spending some time on http://www.colourlovers.com http://www.colourlovers.com and pick a palette with the proper ratio of bold/highlight/background colours As to the app - it's a little difficult to navigate initially; it was a bit unintuitive adding "partners" especially as it is not clear what a partner is (this isn't typical terminology in most places - it sounds perhaps law centric?). I quite like your landing page though; apart from the screenshot it is pretty solid. As pointed out you should clarify what mini means (possibly just scrap that terminology for the moment - I guess you plan to add paid-for plans later so you can always bring that in at a later stage). Maybe call it beta for now.

scorpion032 16y ago
> Either say "no bullshit" properly or drop it. Or, you know, say "BS Free invoicing".
- middayc 16y ago
  hehe :) haven't thought of that. I also like the form of the sentence better than what I used.
- trafficlight 16y ago
  I read that as "Free invoicing that's bullshit."
middayc 16y ago
It's somewhat a joke "no bull*" and then a fox on the right. It might also have additional meanings :) bull invoicing vs fox invoicing As I said to the paraschopra, this is sort of a test/joke and it will change according also to the feedback of people like you. So your comment is appreciated and will be part of the equation. about app design. Thanks, we will try to improve it / make it less busy (although I don't like the Basecamp "template"). I want more focus on "effective" / aka gmail and similar apps. We will also iterate on color usage. Thanks for the link. About "partners" , you notice a bug in screenshot that I missed. That is the old screenshot. App now uses term "Clients". I am fixing the screenshot imediatelly. THANKS! About front page. You are right about mini, there will be not-mini :). I will try to make that part less consfusing. Thanks a lot for very constructive feedback!

KERMIT 16y ago

It's too bad you're using a .ly domain. The mere association with Libya, and the fact that you're dealing with invoicing, makes me very uncomfortable.

Dirt_McGirt 16y ago
Not to mention that it's a pretty lame trend that's bound to be over soon, and then it'll just look out of touch.
- middayc 16y ago
  Well. invoice.xy where xy is anything that makes the whole domain pronounceable is hard to find. So I thought it was a good catch. I am aware that something.ly is a trend that will be over yes.
ErrantX 16y ago
Im not sure anyone will really make the association with Libya (I, for example, didn't know off hand that was where it was for). I think you're right it is a current fad - and one that will end soon (all these fads are driven from the lack of available "good" domains I guess). But I am not sure it is a fatal choice; of course .ly is going to be lower performing than .com/.org/etc but I doubt by much - it also has the advantage of being quite "natural" to add/type.
middayc 16y ago
Well, "it's just a name" :) servers are in US and I am in EU if that makes you feel any better.

jsvaughan 16y ago

Um - I can think of loads of "web 2" invoicing sites blinksale, zoho, freshbooks, less accounting... the web is full of them. (e.g. http://freelanceswitch.com/money/7-online-invoicing-apps-for-freelancers/ http://freelanceswitch.com/money/7-online-invoicing-apps-for...). You could probably find 15-20 in about half an hour. I'm sure you've spent a lot of time on this but seriously you are dreaming if you think this is going to make any money.

middayc 16y ago
Yes, there are many invoicing apps out there. There is a thin line between being brave and being stupid :) . I am aware I am walking that line here.
lunaru 16y ago
It's no exaggeration to say that there are probably more invoicing apps than there are URL shorteners. Having run one for nearly two years, I can say that there are certain key differentiators that customers in this market are looking for. For starters, "simple" and "no bull*" do not have as strong a pull in invoicing as say in project management. When it comes to financial applications, users are going to expect some level of sophistication. I strongly advise the OP against leaning only in simplicity as a key differentiator, since TBH all 20+ competitors in the market could claim the same thing. To the OP if you're seriously committed, shoot me an email and I can give you some pointers that I've learned over the last 2 years.
- middayc 16y ago
  >> For starters, "simple" and "no bull" do not have as strong a pull in invoicing as say in project management. Thanks for the info. >> I strongly advise the OP against leaning only in simplicity as a key differentiator, since TBH all 20+ competitors in the market could claim the same thing. Thanks again. Yes, I can see that you are right. Our main* focus is "efficiency" (not claiming that it's a specially god focus, but it is our main) With this I mean speed & and focus on functionality/work-flow and less on decoration / packaging. As for all webapps, simplicity is a very important factor to, but I can agree with you that it's not a good differentiator. Invoice.ly doesn't have a goal to become a service accountant would use. But it has more in terms of what a SMB owner would use than invoicing. Invoice.ly is US adaptation of app I made for my (EU based) country. Besides "mini" that you can see there is also a "norm" which will offer a more rich set of features. I'm definitely serious, where can I find your email? My is janko DOT itm AT gmail.

davidw 16y ago

I didn't take more than a cursory look, but do you handle other currencies?

middayc 16y ago
No in this version not. But it is coming since a noticeable part of beta testers already need it.
- tarunkotia 16y ago
  Nice work and all the very best. I had a question for you...How did you start distributing your application for "beta" testing? Thanks!
  - middayc 16y ago
    I basically contacted any people I knew from US, or the ones I thought might know people from US. I am a part of few smaller programmer communities where we know each-other.

Preseren 16y ago

Just wanted to add, that I'm using the localised version for Slovenia, and that it is a great app!

marknutter 16y ago

Hire or team up with a good graphic designer. If I had to choose between using this site and getballpark.com I think you know which one I would choose.