4 ms·

Much of this seems to be safeguarding Github from legal issues related to their internal handling of the data the repository: reproducing without attribution i

by spott 10y ago

Much of this seems to be safeguarding Github from legal issues related to their internal handling of the data the repository: reproducing without attribution is necessary for internal search, integrity of source will be violated by search and backups (which might partition the source on the backend), and conditions of "use, display, perform, and reproduce" were already issues before -- essentially depending on users to obey the license rules -- all that changed is that Github is legally requiring your permission to do these things. Honestly, to me, these signify more of a problem with either a) legal interpretation of these licenses or b) the licenses themselves. The things that Github wants to do with your code are perfectly reasonable, and I don't think would be interpreted as "breaking the license". All code is attributed to you when displayed to other users and isn't being broken up in its distribution (unless you believe that only viewing a single file is breaking up the source code... which is just silly) in practice. I really don't view this as a problem. I think fighting any of these issues against Github (without this ToS) in court would likely be very difficult and unfruitful... but the risk makes it necessary for Github to protect themselves anyways.

JoshTriplett 10y ago
> Much of this seems to be safeguarding Github from legal issues related to their internal handling of the data the repository: reproducing without attribution is necessary for internal search, integrity of source will be violated by search and backups (which might partition the source on the backend), and conditions of "use, display, perform, and reproduce" were already issues before -- essentially depending on users to obey the license rules -- all that changed is that Github is legally requiring your permission to do these things. It's relatively normal for a site to claim a permissive license for the purpose of implementing site functionality, such as transmitting, displaying, rendering, or backing up the content. It's far rarer for a ToS to claim a permissive license for arbitrary other purposes, let alone grant that license to every other user of the site. The ToS changes here grant such a license to all GitHub users, and not just to use site functionality (e.g. hitting the "fork" button). The few other times I've seen a site attempt to claim such rights over user-submitted content, it has resulted in a backlash just like this.
- matt4077 10y ago
  Sharing code is pretty central to Github's public repositories, so they're in a different position than, for example, flickr or facebook, where other users are primarily consumers of your creative works. That being said, the license grant Github asks for ("use, display, perform, and reproduce") seems to be a minimal set that is part of any OSS license anyway. It doesn't elaborate on any terms of such a license, but from the context it's clear that GPL/BSD/CC/etc. are considered acceptable (see for example the mention of "granting additional rights via license" which links to an overview of these licenses).
  - JoshTriplett 10y ago
    Licenses don't just grant additional rights; they can also set conditions on the exercise of those rights, such as attribution or copyleft. This ToS doesn't acknowledge any of those conditions.
    - edmccard 10y ago
      >Licenses don't just grant additional rights; they can also set conditions on the exercise of those rights, such as attribution or copyleft Usually the right being exercised is that of copying, not merely using; for example, assuming that running a program is a form of use, the GPL does not set conditions on using (or displaying or performing)[1]; are there any copyright licenses that do restrict activities other than distribution? [1]https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#NoDistributionRequirements https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#NoDistributionR...
      - kuschku 10y ago
        > are there any copyright licenses that do restrict activities other than distribution? Quite a few. The JSON license prevents usage in weapons, the old Java license prevents usage in nuclear submarines (until RedHat lobbied to remove that part), etc.
        10y ago

by spott 10y ago

JoshTriplett 10y ago

> Much of this seems to be safeguarding Github from legal issues related to their internal handling of the data the repository: reproducing without attribution is necessary for internal search, integrity of source will be violated by search and backups (which might partition the source on the backend), and conditions of "use, display, perform, and reproduce" were already issues before -- essentially depending on users to obey the license rules -- all that changed is that Github is legally requiring your permission to do these things. It's relatively normal for a site to claim a permissive license for the purpose of implementing site functionality, such as transmitting, displaying, rendering, or backing up the content. It's far rarer for a ToS to claim a permissive license for arbitrary other purposes, let alone grant that license to every other user of the site. The ToS changes here grant such a license to all GitHub users, and not just to use site functionality (e.g. hitting the "fork" button). The few other times I've seen a site attempt to claim such rights over user-submitted content, it has resulted in a backlash just like this.

matt4077 10y ago
Sharing code is pretty central to Github's public repositories, so they're in a different position than, for example, flickr or facebook, where other users are primarily consumers of your creative works. That being said, the license grant Github asks for ("use, display, perform, and reproduce") seems to be a minimal set that is part of any OSS license anyway. It doesn't elaborate on any terms of such a license, but from the context it's clear that GPL/BSD/CC/etc. are considered acceptable (see for example the mention of "granting additional rights via license" which links to an overview of these licenses).
- JoshTriplett 10y ago
  Licenses don't just grant additional rights; they can also set conditions on the exercise of those rights, such as attribution or copyleft. This ToS doesn't acknowledge any of those conditions.
  - edmccard 10y ago
    >Licenses don't just grant additional rights; they can also set conditions on the exercise of those rights, such as attribution or copyleft Usually the right being exercised is that of copying, not merely using; for example, assuming that running a program is a form of use, the GPL does not set conditions on using (or displaying or performing)[1]; are there any copyright licenses that do restrict activities other than distribution? [1]https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#NoDistributionRequirements https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#NoDistributionR...
    - kuschku 10y ago
      > are there any copyright licenses that do restrict activities other than distribution? Quite a few. The JSON license prevents usage in weapons, the old Java license prevents usage in nuclear submarines (until RedHat lobbied to remove that part), etc.
      - 10y ago