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> "Most of what kids currently learn at school will probably be irrelevant by the time they are 40." I can't help but see this whole "robots are taking over" t

> "Most of what kids currently learn at school will probably be irrelevant by the time they are 40." I can't help but see this whole "robots are taking over" thing as a Republican position which leads to people not valuing public education. Learning to read and write, do math and science, understand physics and biology, etc, will never be useless. These are core bits of information we have collected over our existence here and should continue to be passed on to as many people as we can. I find the excitement for UBI concerning. People seem to have already tossed up their hands and said, "well, I'll be useless in the future, I guess I can't work now!". Meanwhile, Mike Rowe has been saying for years that there are unfulfilled blue collar jobs. Our culture's problem is not that machines will take over or that schools are failing to educate students. It's that we don't find enough value in the contributions that we do make. It's okay to not be a successful tech founder. Everyone is useful in some way or another.

dantheman 10y ago
I think you'd find very few republicans favoring UBI...
- twinkletwinkle 10y ago
  Actually lots of them do, because they see it as a way to remove "entitlements". Delete food stamps, delete welfare, delete all aspects of the social safety net, and implement a simple UBI. It's the same regressive strategy as "do your taxes on a postcard". Treat every equally, not equitably.
- unityByFreedom 10y ago
  You're thinking of the wrong generation. Libertarians support it. They are one option for a future Republican platform. The tech generation's wealthy view UBI as a way to simplify the tax code, thus saving money. UBI would cause inflation and lower the lower class. Their buying power would eventually be worth nothing in a capitalist society. One couldn't expect the government to appropriately increase UBI over time. Stay in school, kids. There's no future where you don't need to do work in order to have the lifestyle you want.
Houshalter 10y ago
School is already useless. See this essay for instance https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/12/02/contra-robinson-on-schooling/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/12/02/contra-robinson-on-sch... How many people use say more than 1% of the knowledge they learn in High School? Hell how many people even remember more than 1% of it? There have been studies done on unschooled kids - that get minimal formal education and are allowed to spend their time however they want. And they do only sightly worse than schooled kids.
- greenleafjacob 10y ago
  Like advertising - 99% of advertising is useless, but identifying which 1% isn't is hard.
- unityByFreedom 10y ago
  > School is already useless I realize there are people who feel that way. I'm not one of them. There are a lot of things I synthesized from school. For me, practicing learning a bunch of different things was useful in itself. Some people learn better in school, and some find ways to do it on their own. > There have been studies done on unschooled kids - that get minimal formal education and are allowed to spend their time however they want. And they do only sightly worse than schooled kids There is a big difference between having a few unschooled kids and changing the whole system to be unschooled. If unschooled is going to be the way of the future, do it at local levels and let it grow with its success. We need not defund public education to achieve an idealized educational system that isn't going to work for everyone.
FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
> I find the excitement for UBI concerning. People seem to have already tossed up their hands and said, "well, I'll be useless in the future, I guess I can't work now!". I wouldn't quite characterize the excitement as giving up. I see it as a form of liberation. Although I doubt society is ready to take such a mental/psychological leap, work/labor does not have to be the primary way in which one derives a sense of self-worth and purpose. I once worked in a mind-numbing, soul-crushing job (it was in the sub-prime credit market, basically screwing people over who didn't understand the concept of compounded interest rates) just to make ends meet. If I had UBI and didn't have to worry about whether I'd have somewhere to sleep, I would've volunteered working at the local hospital (I ended up quitting and doing this anyway, but only after another 6 months of working)
- unityByFreedom 10y ago
  > I wouldn't quite characterize the excitement as giving up To clarify, the excitement comes from knowledge workers who think they have something in mind that will satisfy displaced laborers. I don't think most laborers would be excited about not working for a lifetime and relying on government payments. I think they'd be concerned about getting scammed at some point down the road. > work/labor does not have to be the primary way in which one derives a sense of self-worth and purpose It doesn't for everyone, but it is for some people. UBI is a one-size-fits-all that would replace individually tailored programs. I don't think "work" is so terrible. Money is just a paper form of trust. You did some work for me, and I know you did that, so I convert your contribution to society into special paper that you can exchange elsewhere for stuff. A small community wouldn't need money. They'd all know each other. In a larger society, where we each have a specific role, it's one way to ensure people are pulling their weight. Work connects us, and money smooths the path. We're all working together on something. Some people need more than just money to keep going, so, I don't feel UBI is the right solution. My 2c.
  - FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
    > Money is just a paper form of trust. Although it's impossible to know with 100% accuracy, a lot of historians believe that the origins of money tied up in the creation of empire and slavery. As you say, smaller societies didn't need money and worked on favors. As armies began being created, soldiers wanted something concrete up front, because they could die before you repaid the favor. So they settled on precious metals and eventually coins. Someone has to mine for these metals and mining is backbreaking work. The solution was to take conquered people and turn them into slaves. This is the vicious cycle of empire...armies need to get paid, so you need to plunder and conquer people, you have more territory which requires more soldiers which requires more coins which requires more slaves and on and on.

dantheman 10y ago

I think you'd find very few republicans favoring UBI...

twinkletwinkle 10y ago
Actually lots of them do, because they see it as a way to remove "entitlements". Delete food stamps, delete welfare, delete all aspects of the social safety net, and implement a simple UBI. It's the same regressive strategy as "do your taxes on a postcard". Treat every equally, not equitably.
unityByFreedom 10y ago
You're thinking of the wrong generation. Libertarians support it. They are one option for a future Republican platform. The tech generation's wealthy view UBI as a way to simplify the tax code, thus saving money. UBI would cause inflation and lower the lower class. Their buying power would eventually be worth nothing in a capitalist society. One couldn't expect the government to appropriately increase UBI over time. Stay in school, kids. There's no future where you don't need to do work in order to have the lifestyle you want.

Houshalter 10y ago

School is already useless. See this essay for instance https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/12/02/contra-robinson-on-schooling/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/12/02/contra-robinson-on-sch... How many people use say more than 1% of the knowledge they learn in High School? Hell how many people even remember more than 1% of it? There have been studies done on unschooled kids - that get minimal formal education and are allowed to spend their time however they want. And they do only sightly worse than schooled kids.

greenleafjacob 10y ago
Like advertising - 99% of advertising is useless, but identifying which 1% isn't is hard.
unityByFreedom 10y ago
> School is already useless I realize there are people who feel that way. I'm not one of them. There are a lot of things I synthesized from school. For me, practicing learning a bunch of different things was useful in itself. Some people learn better in school, and some find ways to do it on their own. > There have been studies done on unschooled kids - that get minimal formal education and are allowed to spend their time however they want. And they do only sightly worse than schooled kids There is a big difference between having a few unschooled kids and changing the whole system to be unschooled. If unschooled is going to be the way of the future, do it at local levels and let it grow with its success. We need not defund public education to achieve an idealized educational system that isn't going to work for everyone.

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

> I find the excitement for UBI concerning. People seem to have already tossed up their hands and said, "well, I'll be useless in the future, I guess I can't work now!". I wouldn't quite characterize the excitement as giving up. I see it as a form of liberation. Although I doubt society is ready to take such a mental/psychological leap, work/labor does not have to be the primary way in which one derives a sense of self-worth and purpose. I once worked in a mind-numbing, soul-crushing job (it was in the sub-prime credit market, basically screwing people over who didn't understand the concept of compounded interest rates) just to make ends meet. If I had UBI and didn't have to worry about whether I'd have somewhere to sleep, I would've volunteered working at the local hospital (I ended up quitting and doing this anyway, but only after another 6 months of working)

unityByFreedom 10y ago
> I wouldn't quite characterize the excitement as giving up To clarify, the excitement comes from knowledge workers who think they have something in mind that will satisfy displaced laborers. I don't think most laborers would be excited about not working for a lifetime and relying on government payments. I think they'd be concerned about getting scammed at some point down the road. > work/labor does not have to be the primary way in which one derives a sense of self-worth and purpose It doesn't for everyone, but it is for some people. UBI is a one-size-fits-all that would replace individually tailored programs. I don't think "work" is so terrible. Money is just a paper form of trust. You did some work for me, and I know you did that, so I convert your contribution to society into special paper that you can exchange elsewhere for stuff. A small community wouldn't need money. They'd all know each other. In a larger society, where we each have a specific role, it's one way to ensure people are pulling their weight. Work connects us, and money smooths the path. We're all working together on something. Some people need more than just money to keep going, so, I don't feel UBI is the right solution. My 2c.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
  > Money is just a paper form of trust. Although it's impossible to know with 100% accuracy, a lot of historians believe that the origins of money tied up in the creation of empire and slavery. As you say, smaller societies didn't need money and worked on favors. As armies began being created, soldiers wanted something concrete up front, because they could die before you repaid the favor. So they settled on precious metals and eventually coins. Someone has to mine for these metals and mining is backbreaking work. The solution was to take conquered people and turn them into slaves. This is the vicious cycle of empire...armies need to get paid, so you need to plunder and conquer people, you have more territory which requires more soldiers which requires more coins which requires more slaves and on and on.