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For fun, I've been working on a simple hobby web server in Kotlin that wraps Jetty: https://github.com/danneu/kog https://github.com/danneu/kog I think Kotlin

by danneu 10y ago

For fun, I've been working on a simple hobby web server in Kotlin that wraps Jetty: https://github.com/danneu/kog https://github.com/danneu/kog I think Kotlin is the statically-typed language I've been waiting for, especially with the team's interest in native and JS targets.

Scarbutt 10y ago
Do you have any opinions on Kotlin vs Clojure? are you liking Kotlin more?
- danneu 10y ago
  I think static typing + solid IDE support is too useful to pass up, and that's what Kotlin has. But Kotlin also has simplicity that, for example, Scala doesn't. I tried Clojure after spending a couple months with Scala and giving up, and then I used Clojure fulltime for 3+ years. Eventually, I felt like I was hitting a ceiling with Clojure since it lacked good static analysis. I moved to Node because I felt like, if I'm going to use a dynamically-typed language, I might as well use the ubiquitous one. Also, Clojure was a hard sell to other developers I would meet. What Clojure does have is an ecosystem of simplicity that I hope the Kotlin ecosystem will adopt. For example, compare ztellman's http://aleph.io/ http://aleph.io/ (Clojure) to Java's Netty or to the somewhat mind-numbing https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/CompletionStage.html https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/concurre.... And compare Clojure's Ring to any Java web framework. Even Spark, Java's simplest option afaict, doesn't have real middleware, just before/after "filters". That's why I went with the `(Request) -> Response` signature over the `(Request, Response) -> Unit` signature. There's also ClojureScript's integration and tooling which are pretty impressive these days while Kotlin's JS support is still fledgling. Though these are the impressions of someone who has only been using Kotlin for a few months without a Java background. And it's not like anyone should be using my lil framework in production, it's just a hobby.
  - cutler 10y ago
    Clojure and Kotlin are, for me, the brightest stars in the JVM sky. However, I fear Clojure adoption has peaked at its current low rate probably because it was never aimed at the corporate Java world as Kotlin is. Clojure appeals more to the software artisan which is a valuable niche in itself but its syntax, which is its strength, is so different from Java's that I think it is rarely seen as an alternative to Java.

by danneu 10y ago

Scarbutt 10y ago

Do you have any opinions on Kotlin vs Clojure? are you liking Kotlin more?

danneu 10y ago
I think static typing + solid IDE support is too useful to pass up, and that's what Kotlin has. But Kotlin also has simplicity that, for example, Scala doesn't. I tried Clojure after spending a couple months with Scala and giving up, and then I used Clojure fulltime for 3+ years. Eventually, I felt like I was hitting a ceiling with Clojure since it lacked good static analysis. I moved to Node because I felt like, if I'm going to use a dynamically-typed language, I might as well use the ubiquitous one. Also, Clojure was a hard sell to other developers I would meet. What Clojure does have is an ecosystem of simplicity that I hope the Kotlin ecosystem will adopt. For example, compare ztellman's http://aleph.io/ http://aleph.io/ (Clojure) to Java's Netty or to the somewhat mind-numbing https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/CompletionStage.html https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/concurre.... And compare Clojure's Ring to any Java web framework. Even Spark, Java's simplest option afaict, doesn't have real middleware, just before/after "filters". That's why I went with the `(Request) -> Response` signature over the `(Request, Response) -> Unit` signature. There's also ClojureScript's integration and tooling which are pretty impressive these days while Kotlin's JS support is still fledgling. Though these are the impressions of someone who has only been using Kotlin for a few months without a Java background. And it's not like anyone should be using my lil framework in production, it's just a hobby.
- cutler 10y ago
  Clojure and Kotlin are, for me, the brightest stars in the JVM sky. However, I fear Clojure adoption has peaked at its current low rate probably because it was never aimed at the corporate Java world as Kotlin is. Clojure appeals more to the software artisan which is a valuable niche in itself but its syntax, which is its strength, is so different from Java's that I think it is rarely seen as an alternative to Java.