5 ms·

Please don't share sites like this. This is a common theme. People advertise "revolutionary products" for blind people, whithout actually explaining what kind o

Please don't share sites like this. This is a common theme. People advertise "revolutionary products" for blind people, whithout actually explaining what kind of microactuators they use. I am 99% sure this is a fake non-invention that does not exist.

sleepychu 10y ago
In the video on the linked page they show several blind people using the watch, they seem genuinely surprised at the information they read from its face. Do you suspect this to be faked?
- timthelion 10y ago
  Yes, I believe it is faked. I worked in the braille community for years and micro-actuators that actually work are like a holy grail. If they had one that actually worked, they would be plastering their site with descriptions of their new world changing mirco-actuation mechanism. They don't show a real video of it actuating. It just makes no sense. Its like if you invented fusion power and spent the entire time showing videos of smiling kids next to dish washers, and never even tried to explain the breakthrough for the containment material.
  - tzm 10y ago
    Here's a video: https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch/videos/1113611635421217/ https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch/videos/1113611...
    - timthelion 10y ago
      Aha, wow. That is somewhat convincing.
    - Jill_the_Pill 10y ago
      The video helps, since the watch face shown on the web page has only 2.5 braille characters to each side of the divider line. I was wondering how that could possibly work, but in the video, there are 18 dots, or three full characters, to each side of the line.
  - Someone 10y ago
    For those who think that it shouldn't be that hard: "actually works" means that you can make an actuator in relatively low quantities that - is smal, ideally the distance between Braille dots or about (distance within a character is smaller than that between dots in different characters) 2.5 mm by 2.5 mm, with a height of less than 2cm or so, - can lift a dot by about 1mm (from definitely not above the surface to 0.9mm above it), - withstands a force of about .3N (30 grams), - can be switched while the user exerts that 30 gram force on it, - will work for 10^6 actuations, - works reliably in the presence of dirt, grease and human sweat, - doesn't require enormous amounts of power (piezo-electric Braille cells only need power when switching), - is safe when users (almost) touch them with their bare fingers (piezo-electric cells use 200V or so to switch, but that is at a few cm from the Braille pins), - can be produced for a few dollars (you need 8 for a Braille cell or 160 for a 20-character display, so it adds up). If your goal is to make a full page (say 8000 pins) $1 each already is too much. You also wil like want to switch 500 of these in 0.1s or so. Especially if you forget about the desired reliability and/or limit the force or the travel, the problem gets a lot easier. I think the videos that these guys posted are real, but wonder how long this device will keep working.
- timthelion 10y ago
  Its like how theranos speaches were all about how world changing it was, and didn't include a description of what trick they used to make the leap in inovation.
j_s 10y ago
This site seems to share the common theme - a Braille tablet: http://blitab.com/videos/ http://blitab.com/videos/
- timthelion 10y ago
  Yeah, they are really common. While I was working in braille, my grandparents would send me a new "miracle invention" for blind people every week. Fucking disgusting. I don't even understand what these companies, and sometimes even seemingly non-profit organizations get out of this. But it also seems that it is a bug in the psyche of the tech industry that we share these stories and upvote them. We are obsessed with the idea that technology is changing the world and creating a utopia. The fact that we haven't managed to come up with a new micro-actuator for braille displays in 40 years doesn't bode very well for that theory [1]. To some extent, the current technology, which is called a piezoelectric display is like a lithium ion battery. Its not like we don't have other battery technologies, it is just that lithium is enough better than the others, that no other can take hold. The piezo displays are almost silent, last a LONG time (20 years), and take very little power. They are, however, slow and bulky and not practical for mobile applications. The mechanism is so large, you cannot create a multi-row display. (edit: they are also rediculously expensive!) There have been multirow displays using solenoid actuators. These were hand made by grad students and weighed a ton. They used a huge amount of power and got jammed easilly. Other than that, there are pneumatic displays with huge potential, but are also bulky. There are static electric displays that have life expectancy issues, and a few other technologies, like using memory springs, that tend to have speed issues. Then there are a huge number of mechanical "conveyor belt displays" which are too noisy to use in a classroom or office. But all of the displays you see being publisized are not the ones that I am talking about. Displays like the one you linked to are totally 100% FAKE!!! https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm00/bm0001/bm000110.htm https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm00/bm0001/bm000...
  - Someone 10y ago
    Tiny correction: you _can_ create a multiline display. Two-line devices have been sold, and full-page ones demonstrated. However, it isn't practical or affordable. Impractical: you can stack piezo-electric Braille cells, but your device will be about half an inch high per line of text. Weight also goes up, of course. Not affordable: ballpark, a _cheap_ piezoelectric Braille cell costs at least $25 per character (http://www.aph.org/orbit-reader-20/ http://www.aph.org/orbit-reader-20/ uses a different technology, but is considered cheap at $500 for 20 characters). That's $3.50 per 'bit'. At that price, two 80-character lines would cost you $4000 (In reality, that probably buys you _one_ 80-character line)
DanBC 10y ago
The original link was to the UK's RNIB, and they're pretty careful about avoiding hyped products. https://audioboom.com/posts/5655817-the-first-braille-smartwatch https://audioboom.com/posts/5655817-the-first-braille-smartw... They include interviews with blind people who've tried it. They say that it's smaller, lighter, and cheaper because they use a new type of actuator that isn't "on a ceramic substrate". The company plans to ship its first 150,000 devices by the end of the year for £300; the dot mini is an educational braille reader planned for sale for £650. Here's a mashable link saying the product is shipping: http://mashable.com/2017/02/22/dot-smartwatch-retails/#c8HyxTXvSaq4 http://mashable.com/2017/02/22/dot-smartwatch-retails/#c8Hyx...
- timthelion 10y ago
  > They say that it's smaller, lighter, and cheaper because they use a new type of actuator that isn't "on a ceramic substrate". That means nothing. Modern actuators are piezo-electric. I have no idea what "ceramic substrate" they are talking about. The mashable link is just a press kit. I don't know what is in the RNIB podcast, because the audio is not available to me.
  - sleepychu 10y ago
    >RNIB podcast, because the audio is not available to me. Nothing extra.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > Modern actuators are piezo-electric. I have no idea what "ceramic substrate" The piezo crystals are the ceramic. This new device claims not to use piezo crystals, and that's why it's smaller. There's a possibility it's using electroactive polymers in a closed bubble together with latches. This would be much cheaper than piezo systems, and also smaller. N. Di Spigna, P. Chakraborti, D. Winick, P. Yang, T. Ghosh and P. Franzon, “The Integration of Novel EAPBased Braille Cells for Use in a Refreshable Tactile Display,” Proceedings of the 12th International Conference on Electroactive Polymer Actuators and Devices, San Diego, March 2010, p. 9.
    - 10y ago
timthelion 10y ago
Oof, I'll eat my shirt. This looks like it might actually be legit! https://www.facebook.com/pg/dotsmartbraillewatch/posts/?ref=page_internal https://www.facebook.com/pg/dotsmartbraillewatch/posts/?ref=... There are a number of videos showing it working there...
dennisjung 10y ago
Hi, this is Dennis Jung from Dot Incorporation At the current moment, we are revamping our website https://dotincorp.com/ https://dotincorp.com/ - our goal is to make all information available in both text and audio forms and leave no one behind. We would like to apologize for any inconvenience. Meanwhile, you can visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch to find out about our latest updates and news. Thank you.

sleepychu 10y ago

In the video on the linked page they show several blind people using the watch, they seem genuinely surprised at the information they read from its face. Do you suspect this to be faked?

timthelion 10y ago
Yes, I believe it is faked. I worked in the braille community for years and micro-actuators that actually work are like a holy grail. If they had one that actually worked, they would be plastering their site with descriptions of their new world changing mirco-actuation mechanism. They don't show a real video of it actuating. It just makes no sense. Its like if you invented fusion power and spent the entire time showing videos of smiling kids next to dish washers, and never even tried to explain the breakthrough for the containment material.
- tzm 10y ago
  Here's a video: https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch/videos/1113611635421217/ https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch/videos/1113611...
  - timthelion 10y ago
    Aha, wow. That is somewhat convincing.
  - Jill_the_Pill 10y ago
    The video helps, since the watch face shown on the web page has only 2.5 braille characters to each side of the divider line. I was wondering how that could possibly work, but in the video, there are 18 dots, or three full characters, to each side of the line.
- Someone 10y ago
  For those who think that it shouldn't be that hard: "actually works" means that you can make an actuator in relatively low quantities that - is smal, ideally the distance between Braille dots or about (distance within a character is smaller than that between dots in different characters) 2.5 mm by 2.5 mm, with a height of less than 2cm or so, - can lift a dot by about 1mm (from definitely not above the surface to 0.9mm above it), - withstands a force of about .3N (30 grams), - can be switched while the user exerts that 30 gram force on it, - will work for 10^6 actuations, - works reliably in the presence of dirt, grease and human sweat, - doesn't require enormous amounts of power (piezo-electric Braille cells only need power when switching), - is safe when users (almost) touch them with their bare fingers (piezo-electric cells use 200V or so to switch, but that is at a few cm from the Braille pins), - can be produced for a few dollars (you need 8 for a Braille cell or 160 for a 20-character display, so it adds up). If your goal is to make a full page (say 8000 pins) $1 each already is too much. You also wil like want to switch 500 of these in 0.1s or so. Especially if you forget about the desired reliability and/or limit the force or the travel, the problem gets a lot easier. I think the videos that these guys posted are real, but wonder how long this device will keep working.
timthelion 10y ago
Its like how theranos speaches were all about how world changing it was, and didn't include a description of what trick they used to make the leap in inovation.

j_s 10y ago

This site seems to share the common theme - a Braille tablet: http://blitab.com/videos/ http://blitab.com/videos/

timthelion 10y ago
Yeah, they are really common. While I was working in braille, my grandparents would send me a new "miracle invention" for blind people every week. Fucking disgusting. I don't even understand what these companies, and sometimes even seemingly non-profit organizations get out of this. But it also seems that it is a bug in the psyche of the tech industry that we share these stories and upvote them. We are obsessed with the idea that technology is changing the world and creating a utopia. The fact that we haven't managed to come up with a new micro-actuator for braille displays in 40 years doesn't bode very well for that theory [1]. To some extent, the current technology, which is called a piezoelectric display is like a lithium ion battery. Its not like we don't have other battery technologies, it is just that lithium is enough better than the others, that no other can take hold. The piezo displays are almost silent, last a LONG time (20 years), and take very little power. They are, however, slow and bulky and not practical for mobile applications. The mechanism is so large, you cannot create a multi-row display. (edit: they are also rediculously expensive!) There have been multirow displays using solenoid actuators. These were hand made by grad students and weighed a ton. They used a huge amount of power and got jammed easilly. Other than that, there are pneumatic displays with huge potential, but are also bulky. There are static electric displays that have life expectancy issues, and a few other technologies, like using memory springs, that tend to have speed issues. Then there are a huge number of mechanical "conveyor belt displays" which are too noisy to use in a classroom or office. But all of the displays you see being publisized are not the ones that I am talking about. Displays like the one you linked to are totally 100% FAKE!!! https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm00/bm0001/bm000110.htm https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm00/bm0001/bm000...
- Someone 10y ago
  Tiny correction: you _can_ create a multiline display. Two-line devices have been sold, and full-page ones demonstrated. However, it isn't practical or affordable. Impractical: you can stack piezo-electric Braille cells, but your device will be about half an inch high per line of text. Weight also goes up, of course. Not affordable: ballpark, a _cheap_ piezoelectric Braille cell costs at least $25 per character (http://www.aph.org/orbit-reader-20/ http://www.aph.org/orbit-reader-20/ uses a different technology, but is considered cheap at $500 for 20 characters). That's $3.50 per 'bit'. At that price, two 80-character lines would cost you $4000 (In reality, that probably buys you _one_ 80-character line)

DanBC 10y ago

The original link was to the UK's RNIB, and they're pretty careful about avoiding hyped products. https://audioboom.com/posts/5655817-the-first-braille-smartwatch https://audioboom.com/posts/5655817-the-first-braille-smartw... They include interviews with blind people who've tried it. They say that it's smaller, lighter, and cheaper because they use a new type of actuator that isn't "on a ceramic substrate". The company plans to ship its first 150,000 devices by the end of the year for £300; the dot mini is an educational braille reader planned for sale for £650. Here's a mashable link saying the product is shipping: http://mashable.com/2017/02/22/dot-smartwatch-retails/#c8HyxTXvSaq4 http://mashable.com/2017/02/22/dot-smartwatch-retails/#c8Hyx...

timthelion 10y ago
> They say that it's smaller, lighter, and cheaper because they use a new type of actuator that isn't "on a ceramic substrate". That means nothing. Modern actuators are piezo-electric. I have no idea what "ceramic substrate" they are talking about. The mashable link is just a press kit. I don't know what is in the RNIB podcast, because the audio is not available to me.
- sleepychu 10y ago
  >RNIB podcast, because the audio is not available to me. Nothing extra.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > Modern actuators are piezo-electric. I have no idea what "ceramic substrate" The piezo crystals are the ceramic. This new device claims not to use piezo crystals, and that's why it's smaller. There's a possibility it's using electroactive polymers in a closed bubble together with latches. This would be much cheaper than piezo systems, and also smaller. N. Di Spigna, P. Chakraborti, D. Winick, P. Yang, T. Ghosh and P. Franzon, “The Integration of Novel EAPBased Braille Cells for Use in a Refreshable Tactile Display,” Proceedings of the 12th International Conference on Electroactive Polymer Actuators and Devices, San Diego, March 2010, p. 9.
  - 10y ago

timthelion 10y ago

Oof, I'll eat my shirt. This looks like it might actually be legit! https://www.facebook.com/pg/dotsmartbraillewatch/posts/?ref=page_internal https://www.facebook.com/pg/dotsmartbraillewatch/posts/?ref=... There are a number of videos showing it working there...

dennisjung 10y ago

Hi, this is Dennis Jung from Dot Incorporation At the current moment, we are revamping our website https://dotincorp.com/ https://dotincorp.com/ - our goal is to make all information available in both text and audio forms and leave no one behind. We would like to apologize for any inconvenience. Meanwhile, you can visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch https://www.facebook.com/dotsmartbraillewatch to find out about our latest updates and news. Thank you.