7 ms·

Ah yes. Shifters. Have you ever driven a three on the tree? Or where is reverse on my Renault Grand Scenic, with a 6sp manual and no markings on the shifter?

acomjean 10y ago
Shifters with the various "reverse lockout features". I remember being flagged down in a mall parking lot, and being asked why they couldn't shift into reverse (this shifter required being physically pushed down to move). I had a GTI with the shifter lockout was broken (reverse all the way left and up, where 1st is..) Whats three on the tree?
- jessaustin 10y ago
  That would be a 3-speed manual with the shift lever on the steering column. I never understood how all those complicated linkages from the column down to the transmission ever seemed like a good idea to an engineer...
  - fr0sty 10y ago
    I had an '82 Chevy pickup with that shifter arrangement and it actually wasn't that bad even though the bushings had long fallen out all the joints so there was a good inch of slop in the travel of each of the arms. Still shifted fine. Unless you didn't get it all the way engaged and the gears would bounce instead of mesh and jam the transmission into 2nd and 3rd at the same time requiring you go get out, open the hood and give the control linkage a good yank before continuing. Still miss that truck...
    - jessaustin 10y ago
      Haha I have enough problems with the shift linkages on an old tractor of mine, on which the shift levers are located 4" above the transmission. I'd hate to have to deal with what you're describing here...
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    It's pretty good in an automatic since there are only 3 or 4 positions people use, and it isn't moved while the car is moving.
  - peckrob 10y ago
    When I worked for the Park Service, we had this positively ancient Chevy van we inherited from the Air Force. Thing was older than me, I think. No one knew exactly how many miles it actually had on it because the odometer only had five spaces. Anyways, it had a 3-speed column shifter, and the top linkage off the column would often pop out first thing in the morning. You could tell when it happened because it would just shift with no effort, but you wouldn't move. Then, you'd have to pop the hood and fiddle with it until you got the link reconnected. I'm glad 3-speed column shifters are gone.
- steverb 10y ago
  Three on the tree is a three speed manual with the shifter mounted on the steering column. Saw it a fair bit on older sedans. I think the intent was to not have the shifter in the floor so you could get that big front bench seat.
  - amyjess 10y ago
    I grew up in cars with column shifters and front bench seats, but they were all automatic (my mom had a 1985 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency (lemon!) and a 1993 Pontiac Bonneville SE). I can't imagine the awkwardness of operating a manual in that position.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      Well it was quite common in 1960s pickup trucks.
ptaipale 10y ago
Renault has a bit of history with slightly exotic controls. Take for example the Renault 4 shifter: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG When I got a ride from a friend long time ago, I was puzzled by how that operates. And, of course, there were two different W patterns manufactured at different times: one where R is top-left, and one where R is bottom-right (pictured above). However, with modern Renault shifters you can't put it into reverse when you didn't intend to, because there's that ring that you lift before it goes to R.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Many years ago we had a Renault 4 hire care in Morocco and my wife was driving and she wasn't happy using that control so she got me, the passenger, to change gear. She'd hit the clutch, shout the gear she wanted ("Second"), I'd change gear, she'd put the clutch in and on we'd go....
  - brokenmachine 10y ago
    I hope you didn't have to do any hill starts...
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Changing gears is not a problem for hill starts, you start in 1st gear anyway. Using handbrake to assist hill start could be a problem, but not in Renault 4, where it might actually be more feasible for a passenger to operate the lever: https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake-R4.jpg https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake... However, in modern Renaults some models (Scenic) have an electric handbrake near the driver door, where the passenger possibly cannot reach it. The electric handbrake is a hill start assist as such, though. And it's one of those electric subsystems that can break, is necessary for the annual MOT check, and is very expensive to fix... (900 € for the part, plus cost of work).
      - 10y ago

acomjean 10y ago

Shifters with the various "reverse lockout features". I remember being flagged down in a mall parking lot, and being asked why they couldn't shift into reverse (this shifter required being physically pushed down to move). I had a GTI with the shifter lockout was broken (reverse all the way left and up, where 1st is..) Whats three on the tree?

jessaustin 10y ago
That would be a 3-speed manual with the shift lever on the steering column. I never understood how all those complicated linkages from the column down to the transmission ever seemed like a good idea to an engineer...
- fr0sty 10y ago
  I had an '82 Chevy pickup with that shifter arrangement and it actually wasn't that bad even though the bushings had long fallen out all the joints so there was a good inch of slop in the travel of each of the arms. Still shifted fine. Unless you didn't get it all the way engaged and the gears would bounce instead of mesh and jam the transmission into 2nd and 3rd at the same time requiring you go get out, open the hood and give the control linkage a good yank before continuing. Still miss that truck...
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    Haha I have enough problems with the shift linkages on an old tractor of mine, on which the shift levers are located 4" above the transmission. I'd hate to have to deal with what you're describing here...
- jschwartzi 10y ago
  It's pretty good in an automatic since there are only 3 or 4 positions people use, and it isn't moved while the car is moving.
- peckrob 10y ago
  When I worked for the Park Service, we had this positively ancient Chevy van we inherited from the Air Force. Thing was older than me, I think. No one knew exactly how many miles it actually had on it because the odometer only had five spaces. Anyways, it had a 3-speed column shifter, and the top linkage off the column would often pop out first thing in the morning. You could tell when it happened because it would just shift with no effort, but you wouldn't move. Then, you'd have to pop the hood and fiddle with it until you got the link reconnected. I'm glad 3-speed column shifters are gone.
steverb 10y ago
Three on the tree is a three speed manual with the shifter mounted on the steering column. Saw it a fair bit on older sedans. I think the intent was to not have the shifter in the floor so you could get that big front bench seat.
- amyjess 10y ago
  I grew up in cars with column shifters and front bench seats, but they were all automatic (my mom had a 1985 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency (lemon!) and a 1993 Pontiac Bonneville SE). I can't imagine the awkwardness of operating a manual in that position.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    Well it was quite common in 1960s pickup trucks.

ptaipale 10y ago

Renault has a bit of history with slightly exotic controls. Take for example the Renault 4 shifter: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG When I got a ride from a friend long time ago, I was puzzled by how that operates. And, of course, there were two different W patterns manufactured at different times: one where R is top-left, and one where R is bottom-right (pictured above). However, with modern Renault shifters you can't put it into reverse when you didn't intend to, because there's that ring that you lift before it goes to R.

arethuza 10y ago
Many years ago we had a Renault 4 hire care in Morocco and my wife was driving and she wasn't happy using that control so she got me, the passenger, to change gear. She'd hit the clutch, shout the gear she wanted ("Second"), I'd change gear, she'd put the clutch in and on we'd go....
- brokenmachine 10y ago
  I hope you didn't have to do any hill starts...
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Changing gears is not a problem for hill starts, you start in 1st gear anyway. Using handbrake to assist hill start could be a problem, but not in Renault 4, where it might actually be more feasible for a passenger to operate the lever: https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake-R4.jpg https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake... However, in modern Renaults some models (Scenic) have an electric handbrake near the driver door, where the passenger possibly cannot reach it. The electric handbrake is a hill start assist as such, though. And it's one of those electric subsystems that can break, is necessary for the annual MOT check, and is very expensive to fix... (900 € for the part, plus cost of work).
    - 10y ago