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I have to disagree. I think cars have pretty great UX. Do you remember learning to drive? At any point, was there any doubt as to what turning the steering whee

I have to disagree. I think cars have pretty great UX. Do you remember learning to drive? At any point, was there any doubt as to what turning the steering wheel right or left would do? At any point, was there any doubt as to what the pedals did? Or the gear shifter? Or turn signals? The easiest, most intuitive software wishes it could be as immediately understandable as the control system for an automobile.

douche 10y ago
No, but I was learning on an 1985 Ford F150 with a 5-speed manual transmission. There were so few controls available that my lawn mower was more complex. My 2010 F150 now has a baffling array of buttons and switches and extra levers hanging off the steering column. It's a crapshoot getting in a strange car and figuring out how the headlights and windshield wipers work in particular.
- VLM 10y ago
  Cruise control and audio and sometimes hazard lights too. There's a classic Star Trek movie scene where helmsman Sulu is trying to fly a helicopter, I believe in the movie with the whales, and the helicopter stick controls do the car thing of randomly turning on windshield wipers and things.
wiredfool 10y ago
Ah yes. Shifters. Have you ever driven a three on the tree? Or where is reverse on my Renault Grand Scenic, with a 6sp manual and no markings on the shifter?
- acomjean 10y ago
  Shifters with the various "reverse lockout features". I remember being flagged down in a mall parking lot, and being asked why they couldn't shift into reverse (this shifter required being physically pushed down to move). I had a GTI with the shifter lockout was broken (reverse all the way left and up, where 1st is..) Whats three on the tree?
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    That would be a 3-speed manual with the shift lever on the steering column. I never understood how all those complicated linkages from the column down to the transmission ever seemed like a good idea to an engineer...
    - fr0sty 10y ago
      I had an '82 Chevy pickup with that shifter arrangement and it actually wasn't that bad even though the bushings had long fallen out all the joints so there was a good inch of slop in the travel of each of the arms. Still shifted fine. Unless you didn't get it all the way engaged and the gears would bounce instead of mesh and jam the transmission into 2nd and 3rd at the same time requiring you go get out, open the hood and give the control linkage a good yank before continuing. Still miss that truck...
      - jessaustin 10y ago
        Haha I have enough problems with the shift linkages on an old tractor of mine, on which the shift levers are located 4" above the transmission. I'd hate to have to deal with what you're describing here...
    - jschwartzi 10y ago
      It's pretty good in an automatic since there are only 3 or 4 positions people use, and it isn't moved while the car is moving.
    - peckrob 10y ago
      When I worked for the Park Service, we had this positively ancient Chevy van we inherited from the Air Force. Thing was older than me, I think. No one knew exactly how many miles it actually had on it because the odometer only had five spaces. Anyways, it had a 3-speed column shifter, and the top linkage off the column would often pop out first thing in the morning. You could tell when it happened because it would just shift with no effort, but you wouldn't move. Then, you'd have to pop the hood and fiddle with it until you got the link reconnected. I'm glad 3-speed column shifters are gone.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Renault has a bit of history with slightly exotic controls. Take for example the Renault 4 shifter: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG When I got a ride from a friend long time ago, I was puzzled by how that operates. And, of course, there were two different W patterns manufactured at different times: one where R is top-left, and one where R is bottom-right (pictured above). However, with modern Renault shifters you can't put it into reverse when you didn't intend to, because there's that ring that you lift before it goes to R.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    Many years ago we had a Renault 4 hire care in Morocco and my wife was driving and she wasn't happy using that control so she got me, the passenger, to change gear. She'd hit the clutch, shout the gear she wanted ("Second"), I'd change gear, she'd put the clutch in and on we'd go....
    - brokenmachine 10y ago
      I hope you didn't have to do any hill starts...
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        Changing gears is not a problem for hill starts, you start in 1st gear anyway. Using handbrake to assist hill start could be a problem, but not in Renault 4, where it might actually be more feasible for a passenger to operate the lever: https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake-R4.jpg https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake... However, in modern Renaults some models (Scenic) have an electric handbrake near the driver door, where the passenger possibly cannot reach it. The electric handbrake is a hill start assist as such, though. And it's one of those electric subsystems that can break, is necessary for the annual MOT check, and is very expensive to fix... (900 € for the part, plus cost of work).
        10y ago
Stoo 10y ago
And the interface is fundamentally the same, no matter who made the car.
iainmerrick 10y ago
Steering wheel and pedals, sure. Gearstick, mostly, although the positioning of reverse is different in different cars, and often there's a little trick to engaging it (push the stick down, or pull up a ring just under the handle). The shifter on automatics is often weird (but at least you never have to use it while driving). Headlights, wipers, cruise control, trip indicator, window controls, A/C, radio -- all different on different cars. Even the turn signals can vary. If I'm signalling left and want to turn it off, I expect to be able to cancel the signal by clicking the lever upwards, but I've driven cars where that causes it to signal right instead.
Arizhel 10y ago
Much of that stuff has been standardized over a century. They weren't always that way on all cars. For example, you cite the steering wheel as intuitive and obvious. It's actually not: in many early cars, there was no steering wheel. They had a "tiller" instead (a lever that you pushed from side to side to steer). There was a huge debate at the time over whether tillers or steering wheels were better. Obviously, the steering wheel won out, but if you could transport some people from 1895 to today, they'll complain that tillers should have been used instead. The gear shifter is another example. If you drive a stick, you probably take it for granted that the gearshift is a lever in the middle between the seats. It wasn't that long ago that some cars and trucks had "3 on the column": the gearshift (manual transmission) was on the steering column. And automatic transmission gearshifts on the column persisted much longer than that; I think it took until the 90s for them to finally die out. Turn signals aren't that obvious either; you're just used to them. My mom got a ticket in 1965 because her boss gave her his car keys to drive his car somewhere nearby. She had never driven a car before, only ridden as a passenger, but of course didn't tell him this because it would look really bad. She managed driving it ok (steering, gas), probably because she had watched others do it, but she screwed up with the turn signals and signaled the wrong direction for a turn while a cop was looking. Most "intuitive" things aren't intuitive at all; people are just used to them because they're more or less standardized, and people have gotten used to them or have watched other people use them and learned that way. Take some primitive person from the Amazon rainforest who's never even seen a car and stick him in one (on a closed track) and see how well he figures out how to operate it. If he can't figure it out very quickly with zero instruction, then it's not "intuitive".
- jdhzzz 10y ago
  I just drove a 2006ish BMW and was confused at the turn signal as it didn't "click in" when pushed up or down but immediately returned to center. It operated correctly though, turning off when the turn was completed. Also the windshield wiper control was "opposite" of what I am accustomed to: down was pulse and up was constant. I got mad the first two times I wanted pulse but then realized it was better as my right hand is typically above the stalk on the steering wheel and it is much easier to simply swipe down than have to swipe down then up.
jabl 10y ago
When I was a kid, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how my parents knew which way to operate the turn signals. It was to me unintuitive as the lever was operated up/down whereas the turn lights were right/left, and as on the car we had back then (a Saab 96, IIRC) the instrument panel had only a single blinking light for when either turn signal was enabled, instead of separate left and right turn signal lights. But yeah, IIRC there has been research suggesting that cognitive load on aircraft pilots in old-fashioned aircraft (lots of separate switches and gauges) is lower than in modern aircraft with touchscreens.

douche 10y ago

No, but I was learning on an 1985 Ford F150 with a 5-speed manual transmission. There were so few controls available that my lawn mower was more complex. My 2010 F150 now has a baffling array of buttons and switches and extra levers hanging off the steering column. It's a crapshoot getting in a strange car and figuring out how the headlights and windshield wipers work in particular.

VLM 10y ago
Cruise control and audio and sometimes hazard lights too. There's a classic Star Trek movie scene where helmsman Sulu is trying to fly a helicopter, I believe in the movie with the whales, and the helicopter stick controls do the car thing of randomly turning on windshield wipers and things.

wiredfool 10y ago

Ah yes. Shifters. Have you ever driven a three on the tree? Or where is reverse on my Renault Grand Scenic, with a 6sp manual and no markings on the shifter?

acomjean 10y ago
Shifters with the various "reverse lockout features". I remember being flagged down in a mall parking lot, and being asked why they couldn't shift into reverse (this shifter required being physically pushed down to move). I had a GTI with the shifter lockout was broken (reverse all the way left and up, where 1st is..) Whats three on the tree?
- jessaustin 10y ago
  That would be a 3-speed manual with the shift lever on the steering column. I never understood how all those complicated linkages from the column down to the transmission ever seemed like a good idea to an engineer...
  - fr0sty 10y ago
    I had an '82 Chevy pickup with that shifter arrangement and it actually wasn't that bad even though the bushings had long fallen out all the joints so there was a good inch of slop in the travel of each of the arms. Still shifted fine. Unless you didn't get it all the way engaged and the gears would bounce instead of mesh and jam the transmission into 2nd and 3rd at the same time requiring you go get out, open the hood and give the control linkage a good yank before continuing. Still miss that truck...
    - jessaustin 10y ago
      Haha I have enough problems with the shift linkages on an old tractor of mine, on which the shift levers are located 4" above the transmission. I'd hate to have to deal with what you're describing here...
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    It's pretty good in an automatic since there are only 3 or 4 positions people use, and it isn't moved while the car is moving.
  - peckrob 10y ago
    When I worked for the Park Service, we had this positively ancient Chevy van we inherited from the Air Force. Thing was older than me, I think. No one knew exactly how many miles it actually had on it because the odometer only had five spaces. Anyways, it had a 3-speed column shifter, and the top linkage off the column would often pop out first thing in the morning. You could tell when it happened because it would just shift with no effort, but you wouldn't move. Then, you'd have to pop the hood and fiddle with it until you got the link reconnected. I'm glad 3-speed column shifters are gone.
ptaipale 10y ago
Renault has a bit of history with slightly exotic controls. Take for example the Renault 4 shifter: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Renault4inside.JPG When I got a ride from a friend long time ago, I was puzzled by how that operates. And, of course, there were two different W patterns manufactured at different times: one where R is top-left, and one where R is bottom-right (pictured above). However, with modern Renault shifters you can't put it into reverse when you didn't intend to, because there's that ring that you lift before it goes to R.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Many years ago we had a Renault 4 hire care in Morocco and my wife was driving and she wasn't happy using that control so she got me, the passenger, to change gear. She'd hit the clutch, shout the gear she wanted ("Second"), I'd change gear, she'd put the clutch in and on we'd go....
  - brokenmachine 10y ago
    I hope you didn't have to do any hill starts...
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Changing gears is not a problem for hill starts, you start in 1st gear anyway. Using handbrake to assist hill start could be a problem, but not in Renault 4, where it might actually be more feasible for a passenger to operate the lever: https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake-R4.jpg https://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/uploads/Interfaces/hand-brake... However, in modern Renaults some models (Scenic) have an electric handbrake near the driver door, where the passenger possibly cannot reach it. The electric handbrake is a hill start assist as such, though. And it's one of those electric subsystems that can break, is necessary for the annual MOT check, and is very expensive to fix... (900 € for the part, plus cost of work).
      - 10y ago

Stoo 10y ago

And the interface is fundamentally the same, no matter who made the car.

iainmerrick 10y ago

Steering wheel and pedals, sure. Gearstick, mostly, although the positioning of reverse is different in different cars, and often there's a little trick to engaging it (push the stick down, or pull up a ring just under the handle). The shifter on automatics is often weird (but at least you never have to use it while driving). Headlights, wipers, cruise control, trip indicator, window controls, A/C, radio -- all different on different cars. Even the turn signals can vary. If I'm signalling left and want to turn it off, I expect to be able to cancel the signal by clicking the lever upwards, but I've driven cars where that causes it to signal right instead.

Arizhel 10y ago

Much of that stuff has been standardized over a century. They weren't always that way on all cars. For example, you cite the steering wheel as intuitive and obvious. It's actually not: in many early cars, there was no steering wheel. They had a "tiller" instead (a lever that you pushed from side to side to steer). There was a huge debate at the time over whether tillers or steering wheels were better. Obviously, the steering wheel won out, but if you could transport some people from 1895 to today, they'll complain that tillers should have been used instead. The gear shifter is another example. If you drive a stick, you probably take it for granted that the gearshift is a lever in the middle between the seats. It wasn't that long ago that some cars and trucks had "3 on the column": the gearshift (manual transmission) was on the steering column. And automatic transmission gearshifts on the column persisted much longer than that; I think it took until the 90s for them to finally die out. Turn signals aren't that obvious either; you're just used to them. My mom got a ticket in 1965 because her boss gave her his car keys to drive his car somewhere nearby. She had never driven a car before, only ridden as a passenger, but of course didn't tell him this because it would look really bad. She managed driving it ok (steering, gas), probably because she had watched others do it, but she screwed up with the turn signals and signaled the wrong direction for a turn while a cop was looking. Most "intuitive" things aren't intuitive at all; people are just used to them because they're more or less standardized, and people have gotten used to them or have watched other people use them and learned that way. Take some primitive person from the Amazon rainforest who's never even seen a car and stick him in one (on a closed track) and see how well he figures out how to operate it. If he can't figure it out very quickly with zero instruction, then it's not "intuitive".

jdhzzz 10y ago
I just drove a 2006ish BMW and was confused at the turn signal as it didn't "click in" when pushed up or down but immediately returned to center. It operated correctly though, turning off when the turn was completed. Also the windshield wiper control was "opposite" of what I am accustomed to: down was pulse and up was constant. I got mad the first two times I wanted pulse but then realized it was better as my right hand is typically above the stalk on the steering wheel and it is much easier to simply swipe down than have to swipe down then up.

jabl 10y ago

When I was a kid, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how my parents knew which way to operate the turn signals. It was to me unintuitive as the lever was operated up/down whereas the turn lights were right/left, and as on the car we had back then (a Saab 96, IIRC) the instrument panel had only a single blinking light for when either turn signal was enabled, instead of separate left and right turn signal lights. But yeah, IIRC there has been research suggesting that cognitive load on aircraft pilots in old-fashioned aircraft (lots of separate switches and gauges) is lower than in modern aircraft with touchscreens.