11 ms·

>Kalanick: You know what? >Kamel: What? >Kalanick: Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on so

>Kalanick: You know what? >Kamel: What? >Kalanick: Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on somebody else. I think that is a very insulting and superior thing to say to someone.

davesque 10y ago
Especially when your net worth is six billion dollars.
- dopamean 10y ago
  And you're talking to someone who works for you (though you bend over backwards to say they don't so you can avoid being responsible for them) and earns a tiny, tiny fraction of what you earn.
robbiep 10y ago
It is a truth; however here it is being misapplied I believe. Failure to accept responsibility for failings is a sign of neuroticism... Trump has it; so does Kalanick it would appear from these reports (and all others). In reality it is necessary for growth (and for leadership) to accept responsibility for things. In medicine, every layer up the chain is responsible for the actions of those below; i have encountered many situations where a senior accepts and owns responsibility for a failing or mistake even though that mistake was performed by a junior doctor/nurse. Blame culture is toxic; ownership therapeutic as it leads to growth. In the situation you quote above, it is ironic.
argonaut 10y ago
Something that struck me is: almost half of the country would disagree with you (the more conservative half). A lot of the American public believes what Kalanick said to be very true when it comes to low-ish income people complaining about what wealthier people do to them.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  What a useful spell they are all under then, how could the wealthy ever brainwash them to "buy into" such an exploitative system so effectively?
  - MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
    Dunno if you're being /s or not but there are myriad serious answers, most of them pointing back to the elevation of predatory capitalism to an quasi-religious ideology, often intermixed with judaeo-christian symbolism and messaging.
- throwaway91111 10y ago
  Yes, because conservative people don't complain. In reality, it's a dismissal indicating a lack of respect and/or lack of any fucks to give. Yes, I'd say that's about half the country.
- gingerbread-man 10y ago
  In my experience, it isn't the wealthy who think the poor are lazy/irresponsible-- it's the working poor and the lower middle class. The "more conservative half" of the country isn't particularly the wealthier half of the country. Speculating as to why that is would probably overflow this comments section.
  - lazyasciiart 10y ago
    I know a lot of well off programmers who absolutely believe that the only reason anyone isn't a well off programmer is laziness and poor character. Don't know how you're making your class divisions, but I certainly wouldn't call them lower middle class or below.
    - gingerbread-man 10y ago
      Many lower-middle-class Americans look down on the poor because they see themselves on equal footing, and believe that "If I can work two jobs and make ends meet, so could s/he if s/he had the work ethic." The most arrogant programmers I know seem to think the exact opposite: that they are among the elite few graced with the gift of true programming intuition. (Not true.) They don't think the poor are lazy, they think the poor are helpless and un-talented.
gingerbread-man 10y ago
Out of curiousity, what do you think could have caused the driver to go bankrupt? It sounds like he bought an expensive, UberBlack-eligible car, intending to pay for it with his fares, but the fares were reduced and now he can't make the payments. How common is that scenario amongst Uber drivers? If Uber drivers are, in fact, independent contractors, then they have some responsibility to determine whether the business they're engaged in is a profitable one, and to judge the risk involved. It seems like it would be very easy to underestimate both the costs and the risk.
- dnautics 10y ago
  it's not just the fare reduction, it's also the loss in business as customers stopped using UberBlack in favor of UberX. Having driven for Uber and Lyft for a year and a half (even during the "good years") - the rate of new hires was most definitely a major concern and there were definitely rocky times. I was lucky to be able to mitigate this by moving to San Francisco from San Diego. While in San Diego I saw my take go down from ~$1200/wk to something like $800/wk, then back up to $1200-1600/wk when I moved to SF, and then back down to about $800 by the time I finished. Personally I approached it as an exercise in entrepreneurship, a deep study in the dynamics of real-time economics, and an opportunity to vastly improve my "people skills" in addition to making more money than a PhD postdoc in biochemistry... So a success in all fronts, personally, but also I knew when to quit.
  - gingerbread-man 10y ago
    Recognizing that you may not have been the prototypical Uber driver, I'm curious what kind of research/ evaluation (if any) you did before/ while driving for them re: the financial prospect. How much did you "take home" after gas, repairs, taxes, etc...? Did you have an estimate of that beforehand? My suspicion is that many people who begin driving for Uber overestimate their net earnings and underestimate their deferred expenses e.g. vehicle depreciation and maintenance. If Uber knows this and is taking advantage (with new-driver bonuses, etc...), they're essentially a multi-level marketing company.
    - 10y ago
synicalx 10y ago
If something's true, does it really matter if it insults someone? Driver buys a $97k car, goes bankrupt because as it turns out buying a super expensive car that you obviously can't afford is a dumb idea, then decides to blame someone else for his poor decision making.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  On the other hand, the person he's complaining to had a direct role to play in the fall in his income (justified or not).
  - vecter 10y ago
    Is that true? Or did the market force Uber to lower prices?
    - AstralStorm 10y ago
      Uber could have remained a premium cab company with a fancy app, but everything start-up is rated on growth numbers, not profit, and definitely not on profit of drivers. If not for abusing growth, it would have not raised funding and would have likely failed.
      - vecter 10y ago
        What business incentive would they have to be a black car app, if they can make more money by expanding into UberX? Not to mention, if they had remained a black car app, they might have gone out of business. Uber is a business, not a charity. They exist to maximize profits. If you understand that point, then you see why your point is irrelevant. Also, what the heck does it mean to "abuse growth"?
        Jarwain 10y ago
        If I had to guess, abusing growth means taking advantage of the fact that a lot of investors use growth as a core metric in their decision-making process. Thus, Uber optimising for growth over any other "more reasonable" option, just to obtain funding.
MaysonL 10y ago
Note that Kalanick is in denial that he fucked the driver over. Talk about denying your responsibility for your own shit.

davesque 10y ago

Especially when your net worth is six billion dollars.

dopamean 10y ago
And you're talking to someone who works for you (though you bend over backwards to say they don't so you can avoid being responsible for them) and earns a tiny, tiny fraction of what you earn.

robbiep 10y ago

It is a truth; however here it is being misapplied I believe. Failure to accept responsibility for failings is a sign of neuroticism... Trump has it; so does Kalanick it would appear from these reports (and all others). In reality it is necessary for growth (and for leadership) to accept responsibility for things. In medicine, every layer up the chain is responsible for the actions of those below; i have encountered many situations where a senior accepts and owns responsibility for a failing or mistake even though that mistake was performed by a junior doctor/nurse. Blame culture is toxic; ownership therapeutic as it leads to growth. In the situation you quote above, it is ironic.

argonaut 10y ago

Something that struck me is: almost half of the country would disagree with you (the more conservative half). A lot of the American public believes what Kalanick said to be very true when it comes to low-ish income people complaining about what wealthier people do to them.

Hydraulix989 10y ago
What a useful spell they are all under then, how could the wealthy ever brainwash them to "buy into" such an exploitative system so effectively?
- MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
  Dunno if you're being /s or not but there are myriad serious answers, most of them pointing back to the elevation of predatory capitalism to an quasi-religious ideology, often intermixed with judaeo-christian symbolism and messaging.
throwaway91111 10y ago
Yes, because conservative people don't complain. In reality, it's a dismissal indicating a lack of respect and/or lack of any fucks to give. Yes, I'd say that's about half the country.
gingerbread-man 10y ago
In my experience, it isn't the wealthy who think the poor are lazy/irresponsible-- it's the working poor and the lower middle class. The "more conservative half" of the country isn't particularly the wealthier half of the country. Speculating as to why that is would probably overflow this comments section.
- lazyasciiart 10y ago
  I know a lot of well off programmers who absolutely believe that the only reason anyone isn't a well off programmer is laziness and poor character. Don't know how you're making your class divisions, but I certainly wouldn't call them lower middle class or below.
  - gingerbread-man 10y ago
    Many lower-middle-class Americans look down on the poor because they see themselves on equal footing, and believe that "If I can work two jobs and make ends meet, so could s/he if s/he had the work ethic." The most arrogant programmers I know seem to think the exact opposite: that they are among the elite few graced with the gift of true programming intuition. (Not true.) They don't think the poor are lazy, they think the poor are helpless and un-talented.

gingerbread-man 10y ago

Out of curiousity, what do you think could have caused the driver to go bankrupt? It sounds like he bought an expensive, UberBlack-eligible car, intending to pay for it with his fares, but the fares were reduced and now he can't make the payments. How common is that scenario amongst Uber drivers? If Uber drivers are, in fact, independent contractors, then they have some responsibility to determine whether the business they're engaged in is a profitable one, and to judge the risk involved. It seems like it would be very easy to underestimate both the costs and the risk.

dnautics 10y ago
it's not just the fare reduction, it's also the loss in business as customers stopped using UberBlack in favor of UberX. Having driven for Uber and Lyft for a year and a half (even during the "good years") - the rate of new hires was most definitely a major concern and there were definitely rocky times. I was lucky to be able to mitigate this by moving to San Francisco from San Diego. While in San Diego I saw my take go down from ~$1200/wk to something like $800/wk, then back up to $1200-1600/wk when I moved to SF, and then back down to about $800 by the time I finished. Personally I approached it as an exercise in entrepreneurship, a deep study in the dynamics of real-time economics, and an opportunity to vastly improve my "people skills" in addition to making more money than a PhD postdoc in biochemistry... So a success in all fronts, personally, but also I knew when to quit.
- gingerbread-man 10y ago
  Recognizing that you may not have been the prototypical Uber driver, I'm curious what kind of research/ evaluation (if any) you did before/ while driving for them re: the financial prospect. How much did you "take home" after gas, repairs, taxes, etc...? Did you have an estimate of that beforehand? My suspicion is that many people who begin driving for Uber overestimate their net earnings and underestimate their deferred expenses e.g. vehicle depreciation and maintenance. If Uber knows this and is taking advantage (with new-driver bonuses, etc...), they're essentially a multi-level marketing company.
  - 10y ago

synicalx 10y ago

If something's true, does it really matter if it insults someone? Driver buys a $97k car, goes bankrupt because as it turns out buying a super expensive car that you obviously can't afford is a dumb idea, then decides to blame someone else for his poor decision making.

smallnamespace 10y ago
On the other hand, the person he's complaining to had a direct role to play in the fall in his income (justified or not).
- vecter 10y ago
  Is that true? Or did the market force Uber to lower prices?
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    Uber could have remained a premium cab company with a fancy app, but everything start-up is rated on growth numbers, not profit, and definitely not on profit of drivers. If not for abusing growth, it would have not raised funding and would have likely failed.
    - vecter 10y ago
      What business incentive would they have to be a black car app, if they can make more money by expanding into UberX? Not to mention, if they had remained a black car app, they might have gone out of business. Uber is a business, not a charity. They exist to maximize profits. If you understand that point, then you see why your point is irrelevant. Also, what the heck does it mean to "abuse growth"?
      - Jarwain 10y ago
        If I had to guess, abusing growth means taking advantage of the fact that a lot of investors use growth as a core metric in their decision-making process. Thus, Uber optimising for growth over any other "more reasonable" option, just to obtain funding.

MaysonL 10y ago

Note that Kalanick is in denial that he fucked the driver over. Talk about denying your responsibility for your own shit.