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This is the free market. Uber Black is one thing, but you do know Uber is aggressively working towards autonomous vehicles, because Uber wants to provide transp

This is the free market. Uber Black is one thing, but you do know Uber is aggressively working towards autonomous vehicles, because Uber wants to provide transportation in the future, and not just now. A $69 billion dollar company must always be thinking of the long term if they want to stay relevant. Uber isn't a charity. I don't condone Uber's culture or whatever the CEO may or may not have done to create such a workplace but you have to understand that Uber is a business, like any other, out to maximize profits. Everyone seeks to maximize profits, and if the market calls for changes, then you make those changes lest you give up market share to your competitors.

untog 10y ago
> Uber isn't a charity. No, but it functions in a society, and shouldn't be under the mistaken belief that it is immune to societal change. We can all agree that self-driving cars and automation in general are a positive technological development. But what if it results in mass unemployment? It's short sighted to say that Uber only has to seek to maximise profits - it also has an interest in there being a large customer base with money available to use their product. Presumably it would also prefer that those customers are not rioting and trashing vehicles in the street. This is a mini version of that. Uber has screwed over this driver, and he is justifiably angry about it. "Well, we'd lose market share if we don't do it" is not a winning argument to anyone except other advantaged rich people.
- true_religion 10y ago
  Let's keep in mind that Uber Black was meant to be a replacement for renting limousine by the hour. It was meant to take something that used to be $135/hour with a 5 hour minimum, and turn it into $50 per 30 minute ride so limousine owners could profit off their spare time. This is hardly something that is for the common man, and has little to do with self-driving cars or automation.
  - j-walker 10y ago
    > Let's keep in mind that Uber Black was meant to be a replacement for renting limousine by the hour. WHAT?! How are the vehicles on this site even close to a limousine? http://uberestimate.com/what-is-uber-black/ http://uberestimate.com/what-is-uber-black/
    - true_religion 10y ago
      Private car services offer 4 seater and SUVs as well as the typical looking limo. That's what most of their business is... Driving people to and from locations like nightclubs in SUVs.
- computerex 10y ago
  Uber is not immune to societal change, they fully embrace this, like any company must if they want long term success. Every corporation seeks to maximize profits. They may make investments, but every company expects a positive return on those investments in the long term. I think we are responsible for our own actions. No one forced this driver to use Uber. Uber and Lyft always had very open relationship in the sense that drivers routinely double dipped in the pool without legal issues. There is absolutely no expectation that the terms under which the drivers are operating are set in stone and they aren't going to change in the future. You have to look at things within the legal framework. $97k is a lot of money and people sue for much much less. That driver probably had no case at all.
prostoalex 10y ago
It's not a problem if their driver recruitment material reflects that. If the message was "Drive a black car for occasional UberBlack fare, beware that you must accept a certain percentage of lower UberX fares, and that at some point you will be replaced by a driverless vehicle", it's truth in advertising and drivers get what they sign up for. Driver ads, however, display successful-looking models quoting some unrealistic (as frequently pointed out by quite a few news sources) dollar amounts, and let's face it, the clientele it's targeting is very removed from robotics/AI development, unlikely to have an economics degree (or speak fluent English, for that matter) or disposable income to trade up / trade down their vehicle of choice to reflect the strategy of the day. Your argument can be rewritten to apply to Countrywide Mortgage and fake Viagra peddlers, does that make those businesses right?
diegs 10y ago
> Uber isn't a charity. By that token, their drivers aren't charity workers either. If we put aside the inter-personal aspect of the video (which is contentious to say the least) this, to me, espouses the fundamental flaw in Uber's approach to their business: they have no respect for their workforce. Unless they can get their self-driving cars working in time (which is another contentious subject), I suspect their eventual failure if it comes will be due to how they treat their drivers. Personally, I use Lyft because (a) in SF Lyft and Uber availability is more or less fungible and (b) I got tired of Uber drivers giving me an earful on how badly Uber treats them. Lyft drivers, in my experience (which is anecodtal, but I take at least 5 Lyfts per week and often 10+) are reasonably happy about their work. After the recent news I went ahead and deleted my Uber account, but that was an easy decision to make since I never use them anyway.

untog 10y ago

> Uber isn't a charity. No, but it functions in a society, and shouldn't be under the mistaken belief that it is immune to societal change. We can all agree that self-driving cars and automation in general are a positive technological development. But what if it results in mass unemployment? It's short sighted to say that Uber only has to seek to maximise profits - it also has an interest in there being a large customer base with money available to use their product. Presumably it would also prefer that those customers are not rioting and trashing vehicles in the street. This is a mini version of that. Uber has screwed over this driver, and he is justifiably angry about it. "Well, we'd lose market share if we don't do it" is not a winning argument to anyone except other advantaged rich people.

true_religion 10y ago
Let's keep in mind that Uber Black was meant to be a replacement for renting limousine by the hour. It was meant to take something that used to be $135/hour with a 5 hour minimum, and turn it into $50 per 30 minute ride so limousine owners could profit off their spare time. This is hardly something that is for the common man, and has little to do with self-driving cars or automation.
- j-walker 10y ago
  > Let's keep in mind that Uber Black was meant to be a replacement for renting limousine by the hour. WHAT?! How are the vehicles on this site even close to a limousine? http://uberestimate.com/what-is-uber-black/ http://uberestimate.com/what-is-uber-black/
  - true_religion 10y ago
    Private car services offer 4 seater and SUVs as well as the typical looking limo. That's what most of their business is... Driving people to and from locations like nightclubs in SUVs.
computerex 10y ago
Uber is not immune to societal change, they fully embrace this, like any company must if they want long term success. Every corporation seeks to maximize profits. They may make investments, but every company expects a positive return on those investments in the long term. I think we are responsible for our own actions. No one forced this driver to use Uber. Uber and Lyft always had very open relationship in the sense that drivers routinely double dipped in the pool without legal issues. There is absolutely no expectation that the terms under which the drivers are operating are set in stone and they aren't going to change in the future. You have to look at things within the legal framework. $97k is a lot of money and people sue for much much less. That driver probably had no case at all.

prostoalex 10y ago

It's not a problem if their driver recruitment material reflects that. If the message was "Drive a black car for occasional UberBlack fare, beware that you must accept a certain percentage of lower UberX fares, and that at some point you will be replaced by a driverless vehicle", it's truth in advertising and drivers get what they sign up for. Driver ads, however, display successful-looking models quoting some unrealistic (as frequently pointed out by quite a few news sources) dollar amounts, and let's face it, the clientele it's targeting is very removed from robotics/AI development, unlikely to have an economics degree (or speak fluent English, for that matter) or disposable income to trade up / trade down their vehicle of choice to reflect the strategy of the day. Your argument can be rewritten to apply to Countrywide Mortgage and fake Viagra peddlers, does that make those businesses right?

diegs 10y ago

> Uber isn't a charity. By that token, their drivers aren't charity workers either. If we put aside the inter-personal aspect of the video (which is contentious to say the least) this, to me, espouses the fundamental flaw in Uber's approach to their business: they have no respect for their workforce. Unless they can get their self-driving cars working in time (which is another contentious subject), I suspect their eventual failure if it comes will be due to how they treat their drivers. Personally, I use Lyft because (a) in SF Lyft and Uber availability is more or less fungible and (b) I got tired of Uber drivers giving me an earful on how badly Uber treats them. Lyft drivers, in my experience (which is anecodtal, but I take at least 5 Lyfts per week and often 10+) are reasonably happy about their work. After the recent news I went ahead and deleted my Uber account, but that was an easy decision to make since I never use them anyway.