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This is a tough subject. I don't believe deep understanding of algorithms and data structures is necessary for the vast majority of engineering tasks. Most (alm

by sidlls 10y ago

This is a tough subject. I don't believe deep understanding of algorithms and data structures is necessary for the vast majority of engineering tasks. Most (almost all) engineers can get by understanding complexity notation and a matrix comparing time/space complexity for various algorithms and data stuctures, no memorization required. And even that is overkill, as most of time the "natural" one suggested by a problem will suffice. For example, "I need to map keys to value, so I'll use the Python dict class" will get the job done with acceptable performance almost every time. Whiteboard interviewing based on these things isn't useful unless the candidate is being considered for a position in which knowing these things is fundamentally necessary (e.g. they'll be responsible for developing new algorithms or squeezing out the last 10% of optimization available). On the other hand, substituting requirements for having public code profiles, and the assortment of take-home projects, in-office projects, pair programming to solve a problem the company is facing (especially if unpaid) is just as bad, for different reasons. And certainly not asking technical questions is problematic. I just don't know what the solution is. It's one of those things where I know a bad interview when I see it.

ClayM 10y ago
I throw real life problems I've run into (and fixed!) at people and ask them to give me things they would do to troubleshoot, and compare it to what I did. Always nice when somebody suggests something new. I also ask 10,000 foot questions. "Say you're wanting to build a new app that behaves like Instagram. What's your hosting platform, your technology stack, and explain why?".
- rodgerd 10y ago
  > I throw real life problems I've run into (and fixed!) at people and ask them to give me things they would do to troubleshoot Yes. How does the person think and work? I've interviewed ops folks who are technical gurus whose walked through a problem with me and pulled up with "well, in that case the server is fine and it's not my problem". They can work somewhere else, I don't care how good they are at "making the server work". I've also interviewed ops people who are all "well, if performance in production has degraded I want to sit down with the source control tools for your config management system and apps and work through the changesets with the devs and work out where we should start looking." I don't give a fuck if that gal needs to google some of the answers to the problems she finds, she's got what I want.
- ThrowawayR2 10y ago
  >I also ask 10,000 foot questions. "Say you're wanting to build a new app that behaves like Instagram. What's your hosting platform, your technology stack, and explain why?". Please forgive the uncomfortable question but isn't that a tacit admission that many developers' role consists of simply gluing together libraries and frameworks built by better engineers who actually do know how fundamental algorithms, etc. work?
  - ClayM 10y ago
    "simply" indicates you've never tried to stand up a fairly recent javascript stack :D that being said, you're not wrong. Maybe 5% (maybe less) of the guys out there are smart enough to build libraries and frameworks. the next 45% of the guys out there are smart enough to see all the pieces and figure out how to fit them together. the other 50% understand syntax and can write code, but aren't capable of any sort of bigger picture stuff. and if my recent interviews are any indication, the split outside of silicon valley is more like 2/18/80. Shoot, I'm not in that "let's build brilliant frameworks" crew. I don't think I am at least. Haven't really tried :D
stale2002 10y ago
Agreed. The Google style questions are silly. But an engineer really should be able to at least answer an EASY question. Stick with a question where the answer is "put it in a hash table". No trick questions. Just a baseline, does this person have a pulse, so nobody's time gets wasted.

by sidlls 10y ago

ClayM 10y ago

I throw real life problems I've run into (and fixed!) at people and ask them to give me things they would do to troubleshoot, and compare it to what I did. Always nice when somebody suggests something new. I also ask 10,000 foot questions. "Say you're wanting to build a new app that behaves like Instagram. What's your hosting platform, your technology stack, and explain why?".

rodgerd 10y ago
> I throw real life problems I've run into (and fixed!) at people and ask them to give me things they would do to troubleshoot Yes. How does the person think and work? I've interviewed ops folks who are technical gurus whose walked through a problem with me and pulled up with "well, in that case the server is fine and it's not my problem". They can work somewhere else, I don't care how good they are at "making the server work". I've also interviewed ops people who are all "well, if performance in production has degraded I want to sit down with the source control tools for your config management system and apps and work through the changesets with the devs and work out where we should start looking." I don't give a fuck if that gal needs to google some of the answers to the problems she finds, she's got what I want.
ThrowawayR2 10y ago
>I also ask 10,000 foot questions. "Say you're wanting to build a new app that behaves like Instagram. What's your hosting platform, your technology stack, and explain why?". Please forgive the uncomfortable question but isn't that a tacit admission that many developers' role consists of simply gluing together libraries and frameworks built by better engineers who actually do know how fundamental algorithms, etc. work?
- ClayM 10y ago
  "simply" indicates you've never tried to stand up a fairly recent javascript stack :D that being said, you're not wrong. Maybe 5% (maybe less) of the guys out there are smart enough to build libraries and frameworks. the next 45% of the guys out there are smart enough to see all the pieces and figure out how to fit them together. the other 50% understand syntax and can write code, but aren't capable of any sort of bigger picture stuff. and if my recent interviews are any indication, the split outside of silicon valley is more like 2/18/80. Shoot, I'm not in that "let's build brilliant frameworks" crew. I don't think I am at least. Haven't really tried :D

stale2002 10y ago

Agreed. The Google style questions are silly. But an engineer really should be able to at least answer an EASY question. Stick with a question where the answer is "put it in a hash table". No trick questions. Just a baseline, does this person have a pulse, so nobody's time gets wasted.